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‘Something weird is going on’: Antarctic sea ice stays at historic lows

theguardian.com

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Re: ‘Something weird is going on’: Antarctic sea ice stays at historic lows

#31

Post by defrost »

kardianos wrote: post #9

The ethical skeptic talks about this: https://theethicalskeptic.com/

That's a whole boatload of misdirection and but maybe.

Yes, the sun shines and brings energy from above, yes the core is hot and brings energy from below.

This was known centuries ago and is accounted for.

"The ethical skeptic" is just parroting another form of denialism; it's not us, it's the flucuations from the sun, it's not us, the core is suddenly radiating more heat outwards, maybe it's the volcanos, perhaps it's cosmic rays.

The thermodynamics here is straightforward enough, we have put a measureably significant volume of thermal insulating gas into the atmosphere and have the records to prove it, more energy from the sun is being trapped, the land | sea surface layer has more energy for storms, tipping climate cell behaviour, heating, etc.

Re: ‘Something weird is going on’: Antarctic sea ice stays at historic lows

#33

Post by lm28469 »

tda wrote: post #2

“It is very much outside our understanding of this system.” This is what worries me: climate change leading to entirely new regimes that we don't understand and thus can't model or predict with any accuracy. You just can't build a seawall for a sealevel rise of between 50 and 300 cm somewhere in about 20 to 50 years. Or for heatwaves of maximum 35 to 45 degrees, precipitation of max 20-100mm/hour, etc. Climate adapta…

> This is what worries me: climate change leading to entirely new regimes that we don't understand and thus can't model or predict with any accuracy.

People have been talking about that for a while, we're playing god right now but we have no idea what's coming. It's the same thing every time we try something with nature, what seems easy and simple turns out to have massive side effects we couldn't imagine because every little thing is inter dependant

Re: ‘Something weird is going on’: Antarctic sea ice stays at historic lows

#34

Post by lm28469 »

defrost wrote: post #31
kardianos wrote: post #9

The ethical skeptic talks about this: https://theethicalskeptic.com/

That's a whole boatload of misdirection and but maybe. Yes, the sun shines and brings energy from above, yes the core is hot and brings energy from below. This was known centuries ago and is accounted for. "The ethical skeptic" is just parroting another form of denialism; it's not us, it's the flucuations from the sun, it's not us, the core is suddenly radiating more heat outwards, maybe it's the volcanos, perhaps it…

Yep, and in fine doesn't matter if it comes from the sun, the earth core or too many cow farts, the end result is the same

Re: ‘Something weird is going on’: Antarctic sea ice stays at historic lows

#35

Post by fragmede »

FrustratedMonky wrote: post #3

Yes. We have lots of models, some of the biggest super computers crunching them. But models are still estimates. There can still be un-knowns. Scientist have been writing about un-known, or difficult to model feedback loops for awhile. That is the movie-style doomsday, where we hit some un-foreseen tipping point and climate change takes off. Instead view climate as a large dynamic system, you hit it hard enough, mayb…

All models are wrong, some are useful.

At the scale we're talking about, with the number of cases we have (one, Earth), all our models are going to become more and more wrong the further off from our current equilibrium we get. But yes, Day After Tomorrow.

Re: ‘Something weird is going on’: Antarctic sea ice stays at historic lows

#36

Post by jhgfjhgfjhfgjhg »

ericmay wrote: post #30
ChatGTP wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a good point, but is much being done while a democrat is in charge? Seems like Joe has squandered the best part of another term. Amendment: I didn't mean he is doing nothing, or a bad job, but he could even just address the UN or NATO and actually explain that while his hands are tied, he could offer support in any other way possible until America gets his head correct.

President Biden can’t create legislation. That has to come from Congress. McCarthy (R) is speaker of the house. “Can’t the President issue executive orders?” Yes but the Supreme Court has been striking down and limiting the EPA from executing on executive orders or other mandates that the agency has. For example last year [1] > By a vote of 6 to 3, the court said that any time an agency does something big and new – i…

Democratic states can't create legislation for their own states?

Re: ‘Something weird is going on’: Antarctic sea ice stays at historic lows

#37

Post by almostnormal »

jacquesm wrote: post #20
jfengel wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can't adapt to something that keeps changing. If we keep putting out CO2, the climate will keep getting hotter. It's not as if giving up will make it stop here. It really can go to 8C or more, a temperature that will make large parts of the earth uninhabitable. We're going to be forced to make changes -- not just "adapt" but substantially alter society. The longer we wait the worse it will be.

I've seen the analogy be made that it is comparable to avoiding the grounding of a big vessel, say an ocean tanker. The sooner you act the smaller the course and velocity changes will have to be, the later the more extreme and violent they will have to be. We're already well into the territory where we will in all likelihood not escape a grounding. But we can still choose the spot where we ground and indirectly affec…

> We're already well into the territory where we will in all likelihood not escape a grounding.

The melting ice will increase sea levels sufficiently to avoid grounding.

Re: ‘Something weird is going on’: Antarctic sea ice stays at historic lows

#38

Post by PartiallyTyped »

jhgfjhgfjhfgjhg wrote: post #27
PartiallyTyped wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This shows an enormous amount of ignorance over how the US works. Because of gerrymandering, republicans own the House of Representatives, no legislation can pass from the legislative branch if the Congress and the House don’t agree. The executive branch can not “just” make new legislation. It’s not part of its power or job. You can’t blame Joe because Marjorie Taylor Greene and every so and so lunatic has decided to…

This shows an enormous amount of ignorance of how federalism works. Nothing is stopping Californians from banning fossil fuels.

The chain is specifically about federal level. Nobody denies that things can be done at the state level.

> The US isn't capable of doing anything federally until the nation is reunified.

Re: ‘Something weird is going on’: Antarctic sea ice stays at historic lows

#39

Post by fragmede »

ChatGTP wrote: post #5

Another day passes, another day nowhere near enough is being done to get on top of this situation. If the US government had any brains, they'd be setting up a WW2 style mobilization against climate change and moving towards almost immediate decarbonization. This is an international effort working with NATO allies. It would only benefit everyone. New industry, safer economic outcomes long term, nicer world to live in.…

Thankfully, China has already been making large investments in solar power and batteries. Might not be enough to save us, but it's enough to note.

Re: ‘Something weird is going on’: Antarctic sea ice stays at historic lows

#40

Post by dnstalk »

jhgfjhgfjhfgjhg wrote: post #36
ericmay wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

President Biden can’t create legislation. That has to come from Congress. McCarthy (R) is speaker of the house. “Can’t the President issue executive orders?” Yes but the Supreme Court has been striking down and limiting the EPA from executing on executive orders or other mandates that the agency has. For example last year [1] > By a vote of 6 to 3, the court said that any time an agency does something big and new – i…

Democratic states can't create legislation for their own states?

What's the point? Any progress will require massive amounts of funding to solve these issues and states can't print money.
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