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Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

jonathanhaidt.substack.com

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Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#301

Post by pineaux »

em-bee wrote: post #289
duckmysick wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been wondering: how do we teach kids about addiction (substances, gambling, phone/internet) and its consequences? Theoretical explanation is not effective. Letting them experience it first hand might be too destructive, because of the nature of the addiction. Can any parent chime in what worked and what didn't?

what works is living by example. and letting the kids grow up in an environment where nobody does drugs. showing them the bad outcome that others suffering from addiction experience may also be instructive. but generally kids do as the parents do. if you have a good relationship with your kids so that they are not trying to take drugs out of protest, then they won't be tempted to try.

I think this is bad advice.

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#302

Post by _a_a_a_ »

dghlsakjg wrote: post #281
duckmysick wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been wondering: how do we teach kids about addiction (substances, gambling, phone/internet) and its consequences? Theoretical explanation is not effective. Letting them experience it first hand might be too destructive, because of the nature of the addiction. Can any parent chime in what worked and what didn't?

Let them play monopoly with allowance money? /s In all reality the most effective drug and vice talks I ever got were in High School. The first was from our school's substance counselor who was a former crack addict, and mother of one of our fellow students. She just told her story, and talked about all the horrible shit she saw, but never once told us drug war lies. The other was from my English teacher a few weeks…

That sounds like the right way to do it. I would have welcomed that down to earth honesty at my school. We only got half the info we needed, the half they wanted us to hear, and at that point I lost trust in them.

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#303

Post by _a_a_a_ »

jxramos wrote: post #283
duckmysick wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been wondering: how do we teach kids about addiction (substances, gambling, phone/internet) and its consequences? Theoretical explanation is not effective. Letting them experience it first hand might be too destructive, because of the nature of the addiction. Can any parent chime in what worked and what didn't?

I've been day dreaming about as more social data goes public on the internet how can that enable us to peer into the lives of folks who post material and leak details of their lives online. Can sociological studies be made where these bad choices can be reviewed in accelerated form where the individuals who picked the wrong path show the fruits of their choices visually and the decline is evident just looking at them…

People can disregard fucking anything they don't want to hear. Still, perhaps, might work.

> where these bad choices

drugs = bad choice, always? There can be good sides too.

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#304

Post by shard »

mrguyorama wrote: post #89
gloryjulio wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. You get to be really careful where you want to put ur skill points. Play time is part of the skill tree too ;) Full scheduling of random stuff doesn't mean it would always help the children. It's the children's version of appearing busy.

A full schedule is bad for a kid. They need to learn how to keep themselves entertained, or plan their own activities, or manage their own time, and they can't do that if they get a day plan from sun up to sun down.

Kids can keep themselves entertained very easily nowadays, YouTube/Tiktok/games can suck hours away in the blink of an eye. It's not like when I was young where going outside and hanging out with friends was the most fun choice.

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#305

Post by loa_in_ »

itronitron wrote: post #262
twh270 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently it's even worse (slightly, but still...) in 2021 according to https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/72/su/su7201a6.htm . This is horrifying. These kids are going to become adults who will, to some extent, struggle to have successful, satisfying and rewarding lives.

Hopefully they won't get hooked on opiates like so many adults in the free-ranging generation before them.

This is already the case

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#306

Post by JKCalhoun »

theptip wrote: post #65
Waterluvian wrote: post #9

This may be obvious or well-discussed but I had an epiphany some years back when my dad, regarding my kids, said (paraphrasing), "they're not playing. 'Play' is a misleading term. They're testing the world. They're learning how things work. How gravity works. How friction holds lego together. How actions cause reactions. How friends and strangers behave when you do things. How to use language with make believe. How t…

WoW is an interesting example. I’m sure there are lessons to be learned in any activity; it’s not like structured playtime is giving you zero information to update your world model. I suppose the question is whether the “learning density” is high or low, and diverse, in video games. I spent a lot of time on single player games as a kid and am open to the idea that MMOs give you more learning (particularly social, of…

I'm even more bullish as to whether WoW counts as much more than team play with training wheels on.

When you screw up team play on the playground you can make enemies, rivals that will follow you through school for years to come, a reputation (for better or worse). You may have to look another kid in the eye and tell them, "No".

I don't doubt you can acquire some skills from online play, but if you think you're leveling up in self-esteem, social skills, I imagine that will get really put to the test when you find yourself alone at a party, or in an interview for a job.

Like flight simulators, they can be educational but I suspect it's a whole 'nother level of learning and experience when you could die if you screw up.

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#307

Post by plasticchris »

duckmysick wrote: post #265
mrguyorama wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't allow your kids to fuck up, they will never build healthy behaviors around fucking up. It's very helpful for kids to give them safe chances to fuck up.

I've been wondering: how do we teach kids about addiction (substances, gambling, phone/internet) and its consequences? Theoretical explanation is not effective. Letting them experience it first hand might be too destructive, because of the nature of the addiction. Can any parent chime in what worked and what didn't?

I watched requiem for a dream when I was a preteen. It was super effective.

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#308

Post by _a_a_a_ »

em-bee wrote: post #289
duckmysick wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been wondering: how do we teach kids about addiction (substances, gambling, phone/internet) and its consequences? Theoretical explanation is not effective. Letting them experience it first hand might be too destructive, because of the nature of the addiction. Can any parent chime in what worked and what didn't?

what works is living by example. and letting the kids grow up in an environment where nobody does drugs. showing them the bad outcome that others suffering from addiction experience may also be instructive. but generally kids do as the parents do. if you have a good relationship with your kids so that they are not trying to take drugs out of protest, then they won't be tempted to try.

I think you'll end up with drug-naive kids, which may be a similar risk. You've just shifted the risk to an older period of their life. Kids need information, not naivete enforced through ignorance.

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#309

Post by rcurry »

When I was like 12 my teacher was an army reservist and got the idea to teach us how to rappel off the top of the school, lmao. So we all got together with our families and rappelled off a four story building. It was bananas and we all had so much fun. Now days they’d probably charge that teacher with a felony.

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#310

Post by dror »

duckmysick wrote: post #265
mrguyorama wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't allow your kids to fuck up, they will never build healthy behaviors around fucking up. It's very helpful for kids to give them safe chances to fuck up.

I've been wondering: how do we teach kids about addiction (substances, gambling, phone/internet) and its consequences? Theoretical explanation is not effective. Letting them experience it first hand might be too destructive, because of the nature of the addiction. Can any parent chime in what worked and what didn't?

- Lead by example. Be responsible about your own use and be honest about it.

- Help them engage in constructive risk taking behavior. Sports are a common example, and there's plenty of research showing that they reduce harmful behavior. Teens, specifically males explore risky behavior. They have these new magnificent bodies and they want to test their limits.

- Be present, available and engaged with them. Some of the time, they'll want you out of their face. That's fine, but try and keep routines like family meals, and talk to them, if they're willing.

- Try to maintain the family. Sometimes a divorce/separation is the right thing, but for the kids, most of the time, keeping the family together in a dual-parent family is very important.

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