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Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

jonathanhaidt.substack.com

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Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#191

Post by klabb3 »

MattGaiser wrote: post #41
deanmoriarty wrote: post #22

Wow, this is so sad. I grew up in Europe in the 90s with parents who pretty much let me do whatever I wanted as long as I was a well-behaved child/teenager and getting reasonable school grades. At 6 years old I was literally biking by the river or wandering in the woods with my friends after school for hours on end. Every day was an exciting adventure without any adult supervision, just random groups of 2-10 kids who…

> This did not prevent me from going to a great university in my country, get my master in Computer Engineering, have a curriculum good enough to immigrate to the US, and working at several tech companies including FAANG, making high 6 figures now. The key question is more, could you do that today and would you sacrifice that to give your kids that childhood? Would your grades and lack of extracurriculars have earned…

> I would not be a competitive applicant today for many of the same programs I was admitted to back then.

Disclaimer: I live in the US but didn’t grow up here. I also grew up in the 90s.

In my experience, in higher education the prestige of the school has a smaller impact on learning than most people seem to think. Mostly, it seems to function as networking and a badge on your resume which can open the next door.

But once you have a bit of experience, more doors will open. In a few years, people care more about what you worked with than what school you went to, even if it’s an Ivy for instance.

Plus, working at smaller companies is a much faster way to learn than faang, imo. Sure, you get good at politics, perf reviews, and learn some best practices, but in terms of domain knowledge and practicing decision making, faang is terribly inefficient for “growth”. I wish I had worked more at smaller companies/freelancing, because frankly most of big corp was a waste of time (although money is good).

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#192

Post by bowsamic »

mantas wrote: post #70
bowsamic wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Disadvantaged in what sense? It’s likely those kids won’t even go for the same grind as „managed“ kids.

Less ability to compete in the job market with others who were managed in basically all skilled jobs

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#193

Post by surge »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #35
xwdv wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A pop in? Where a friend just shows up unannounced with a knock at your door and a tip of the hat and says they were just in the neighborhood and felt like they should drop and has a seat on your couch?

Sure. Maybe they catch you at an awesome time, maybe they don't and they leave- it's a pop-in after all. Keep expectations low. At least you saw them.

I think the advent of cell phones killed the pop in, everyone can call or text now before popping in.

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#194

Post by Waterluvian »

chmod775 wrote: post #188
Waterluvian wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's all relative. For us, it's fine to watch my kid completely smash a lego set down the stairs because they're holding it like a waiter, it's another thing when it's the Nintendo 3DS (both examples from this week)

> it's another thing when it's the Nintendo 3DS (both examples from this week) On the other hand, if you don't buy them a new 3DS right away, there's a valuable lesson here somewhere.

When we interrupted it we did have that discussion. “You play it so much and if it breaks there isn’t another one.”

It seemed to register. But I think one of these days some sacrificial tech will really teach them this. And I wonder if that will make all the difference for respecting cell phones.

I mentor a highschool robotics team and 90% of the kids phones have cracked screens.

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#195

Post by bowsamic »

lgleason wrote: post #21
bowsamic wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Yup, I've seen the effects of this first hand.

I am one of the unmanaged kids and I am very much competing with all the managed ones. I’m 28 and still feeling the effect quite heavily. My wife was managed and she just has such a stronger work ethic and honestly better mental health than I. It’s a miracle I got to where I am frankly

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#196

Post by AlexandrB »

lgleason wrote: post #100

The kid that does really well in school, makes it big is going to have an opportunity for a lot more play later in life. The kid who does nothing but play will probably end up having very little opportunity and have to work long hours later in life to barely make ends meet with lots of stress and little opportunity for play. So its a trade off. Obviously if the kid comes from a rich family that is willing to support…

> The kid that does really well in school, makes it big is going to have an opportunity for a lot more play later in life.

Really? There's a constant push to "grind" more, even for well-paid professionals. This is a cultural problem, not one of attainment. Consider how Elon Musk, one of the richest people in the world, claims to work ~16 hours a day. Someone with a steady job in construction probably has a lot more free time than him.

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#197

Post by surge »

m-ee wrote: post #124
atonse wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

haha I have been maximizing the annoyance level of my parents and others by telling my kids these things: - don’t focus on GPA, focus on actually gaining knowledge and understanding how the world works. good grades are a measure of how you understand things. they should never be the goal. I was a C student and I am more curious about things than many of my peers with fancy degrees. - forge your own path, there is alw…

Assuming you’re American you are really screwing then over by not paying for college. The FAFSA assumes a parental contribution. It’s not just other parents, but the federal government and all the colleges themselves that have the expectation that you will contribute. There’s no exemption for “I want to teach my kids financial responsibility”. If you’re high income your children will be ineligible for any financial a…

The problem was they never factor in the single mom with 3 kids, she made "enough" that I qualified for less grants, but she still had 2 other kids to raise and also help put through college since we were only a couple years apart.

The FAFSA is such a crappy measuring stick for college affordability. I ended up having to make up the difference with loans, now it wouldn't be feasible.

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#198

Post by toshk »

lolinder wrote: post #44
Waterluvian wrote: post #9

This may be obvious or well-discussed but I had an epiphany some years back when my dad, regarding my kids, said (paraphrasing), "they're not playing. 'Play' is a misleading term. They're testing the world. They're learning how things work. How gravity works. How friction holds lego together. How actions cause reactions. How friends and strangers behave when you do things. How to use language with make believe. How t…

I wholeheartedly agree based on my own kids, but want to add a caution lest someone misunderstand: this testing, learning, and growing is of a kind that can only be done without adult supervision. It's not something that you can give them with a private lesson. It's not something that can be taught in a classroom. It's not something that can happen at all without adults letting the kids figure it out on their own by…

You can definitely enrich & join play. You just have to also enjoy & play and not supervise.

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#199

Post by Der_Einzige »

nonethewiser wrote: post #68
Waterluvian wrote: post #9

This may be obvious or well-discussed but I had an epiphany some years back when my dad, regarding my kids, said (paraphrasing), "they're not playing. 'Play' is a misleading term. They're testing the world. They're learning how things work. How gravity works. How friction holds lego together. How actions cause reactions. How friends and strangers behave when you do things. How to use language with make believe. How t…

Very true with rough and tumble play as well. Which i imagine is virtually non-existant for kids raised only by single mothers. And is extremely important for adolescent boy.s Basically it teaches limits - what hurts and what causes pain to others. And overall leads to much healthier social development. Jordan Peterson talks a lot about this https://youtu.be/Ay1KVzVXbjc

I think children of single mothers are over-represented in tech circles and likely on HN, which (alongside your poor grammar/capitalization and citing of a charlatan) is why you're being downvoted. The truth hurts, but it's true none-the-less. Boys raised by single mothers have terrible outcomes compared to full families, or even of single fathers. This is a sociological fact.

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#200

Post by hgomersall »

OO000oo wrote: post #99
pomian wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brilliant comment. We had a principal in our little community school who had exactly that attitude. He encouraged 'playing", and was often criticized for his efforts, by parents who didn't understand. Overall, however, the kids from that school were all eager learners, curious as to the world around them, socially very well integrated, and easily adapted to the rigors in high school and later. Play, is under valued.

The parents have every reason for concern, not because there's something wrong with the principal but because there's something wrong with the society their children are entering. The parents realize that their children will be screwed if they don't get into a good college, and the poorer parents need scholarships too! The principal's philosophical musings won't pay the bills.

I'm not sure that's true. Young kids need to play as part of their education. It seems reasonable to me that play makes you better trained to achieve those things you describe as important.
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