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Sinead O’Connor has died

irishtimes.com

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Re: Sinead O’Connor has died

#291

Post by dragonwriter »

tetrep wrote: post #198
adnanc wrote: post #190

Announcing her conversion, she said, "This is to announce that I am proud to have become a Muslim. This is the natural conclusion of any intelligent theologian's journey. All scripture study leads to Islam. Which makes all other scriptures redundant."

That sort of phrasing is almost to be expected, no? This might just be a cynical atheist's interpretation of Abrahamic religions, but Islam seems to be loosely doing the same thing to Christianity that Christianity did to Judaism, i.e. it purports to be the next theological evolution and therefore all practioniers of {current_religion} should rationally convert and download the latest religious firmware. I was going…

> I would like to suggest that Mormonism is the true natural conclusion of any intelligent theologian's journey. At least until someone creates a new Abrahamic religion to succeed it.

Both the Bahai and Rastafari are newer Abrahamic faiths than Mormonism; also, to the extent that Mormonism post-dates but does not build on Islam, it would not succeed it in a framework where building on the previous “conclusion” makes you the new one, so either the Rastafari by novelty or the Druze (or maybe Bahai, because I think they build, non-exclusively, on the Druze) by building on Islam have a better claim in the proposed framework than the Mormons to be the current “conclusion” if one assumes that Islam, by building on prior Abrahamic faiths, was at one point the “conclusion”.

Re: Sinead O’Connor has died

#292

Post by sharno »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #127

I always had immense respect for her decision to shave her head when told by music execs to "sex it up." She was gorgeous but she was a singer. She wanted to be hired for her singing. Being a pretty young woman shouldn't be such a ridiculous hardship. And I kind of wonder how much that radicalized her and how that factors into her conversion to Islam.

This comment seems offensive and feels like you associating radicalization with Islam

Re: Sinead O’Connor has died

#293

Post by DoreenMichele »

sharno wrote: post #292
DoreenMichele wrote: post #127

I always had immense respect for her decision to shave her head when told by music execs to "sex it up." She was gorgeous but she was a singer. She wanted to be hired for her singing. Being a pretty young woman shouldn't be such a ridiculous hardship. And I kind of wonder how much that radicalized her and how that factors into her conversion to Islam.

This comment seems offensive and feels like you associating radicalization with Islam

No. I'm doing no such thing.

Re: Sinead O’Connor has died

#294

Post by lucideer »

kokanator wrote: post #219
basisword wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow! The thing that surprised me most about this was it’s a Bob Dylan tribute concert? I’m shocked religion still had such a hold on the kind of people attending that type of concert at that point in time. The volume is insane. Incredible strength to be able to stand and take such abuse and continue to perform.

First a bow to her tremendous courage. The irony of this moment was the song she was about to perform was "I Believe in You". This would have been the most religious song sung that evening by far. It was brilliant on her part to separate the failed human organization from her beliefs. This is what happens when you simply shout someone down. You miss the opportunity to better understand them. Here is the rehearsal: ht…

> The irony of this moment

The thing about Sinéad is that she was, right until the end, a strong believer in one god and if anything more of a critic of the church due to their betrayal of religious/spiritual/moral principles as hierarchical institutions, rather than their promotion of theistic beliefs.

She always considered herself a theologian, she said at the time of the pope: "Why do we need a pope? Christ doesn't need a representative".

She also later said of converting/"reverting" to Islam: "The reason why I like Islam is, I can keep Christianity and Judaism, which are two religions which I loved and studied.."

While her speaking out against the church would have resonated with many atheists and agnostics at the time, and even more with today's less religiously dominated Western society - it certainly resonates with me for this reason - I think her own perspective was a little different.

Re: Sinead O’Connor has died

#295

Post by bluepod4 »

deadlocked wrote: post #272
bluepod4 wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excuse me? Isn’t the stereotype (and possibly reality) that Irish women are full of moxie and maybe or maybe not respected for it depending on who cares? Like she experienced IRA bombings and you’re saying she’s supposed to be intimidated by reggae artists who smoke weed and practice non-violence and/or intimidated by their fans who do so?

With the what now? She experienced IRA bombings? Are you sure about that?

By “experienced”, I meant deeply affected by. So yes. Look it up yourself.

Re: Sinead O’Connor has died

#296

Post by manuu80 »

ogab wrote: post #175

Saw her live in NYC back in 2005 when she was doing roots reggae. Sly & Robbie was the rhythm section, with Burning Spear on vocals and percussion. Maybe Mikey Chung on guitar? I was totally surprised at the combination — this Crazy Baldhead amongst Dreads — but one of the best live shows I've been to. Surrounded by reggae icons, she was a boss on that stage. Big up Sinéad! An incredible musician.

check "Throw Down Your Arms" album. Not sure why, but it can only be found in YT.

Re: Sinead O’Connor has died

#297

Post by cushychicken »

bluepod4 wrote: post #242
cushychicken wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a whole shitload of moxie for an Irish lady. Very cool.

Excuse me? Isn’t the stereotype (and possibly reality) that Irish women are full of moxie and maybe or maybe not respected for it depending on who cares? Like she experienced IRA bombings and you’re saying she’s supposed to be intimidated by reggae artists who smoke weed and practice non-violence and/or intimidated by their fans who do so?

I meant it takes a lot of moxie to front a roots reggae band as a white woman.

I'm super impressed by it. It's a crossing of several huge cultural chasms. Not anyone could do that. Sinead did. That's impressive.

Re: Sinead O’Connor has died

#298

Post by mixmastamyk »

mongol wrote: post #208

I have known about her since Nothing Compares 2 U, but not known that much else about her career since then. I thought she was kind of a one hit wonder, as talented as she were she never got another hit close to as successful as that one. Do you think this is an unfair description?

Her goal was not to collect hits, and the one was a fluke that surprised everyone involved. Up to each person to decide how important that is to them, I suppose.

Re: Sinead O’Connor has died

#299

Post by mixmastamyk »

synetic wrote: post #141
dang wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You started a religious flamewar and then poured fuel into it in multiple places. That's why your comment is flagged. Please don't post like that here. Your comment was just fine in the first paragraph and broke the site guidelines with the second paragraph—not because we care what you think about popes, but because such swipes predictably lead to internet dreckfests and we're simply trying to have a forum that doesn…

I’ve been on this site since the beginning. I change usernames periodically. I understand the desire to avoid flame wars. Here’s a sincere question. If I called Charles Manson a bastard would that be flamebait? Are we at the point that calling out the objectively verified despicable acts of a person is flamebait? It wasn’t a swipe at the man. Sinead suffered a lot for ripping his image apart. She has died now. It is…

It's one thing I hate about this site. You can't tell "the truth as you know it," and instead have to pretend to be "curious." I'm generally curious, so it's not a difficult requirement most days.

Well, guess what? Some things are actually bad-and it's obvious—and we are experienced enough to know it. Child abuse would fall into that category. After confirmation, no "curiosity" is needed in that instance.

(I understand the angle about conversation deteriorating quickly, and am still here, right? But damn I hate it when we can't state obvious truth because it is not "polite." )

Re: Sinead O’Connor has died

#300

Post by goodbyesf »

jgwil2 wrote: post #287
goodbyesf wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. I'm correct. From your link: 'The Abrahamic religions are a group of religions centered around the worship of the God of Abraham. Abraham, a Hebrew patriarch,[1][2] is extensively mentioned throughout the Abrahamic religious scriptures of the Quran, and the Hebrew and Christian Bibles.' As I said, only judaism worships the god of abraham. As I showed, the god of abraham said ONLY the descendants of abraham are hi…

> It's self-contradictory nonsense invented purely to advance a political agenda. No, it's not. It's meant to describe three major modern religions with common roots in the ancient near east. These religions have much in common both historically and theologically. The relationship is similar to that of Hinduism, Jainism and Buddhism.

> No, it's not.

Yes it is. It's a modern invention created for political reasons.

> It's meant to describe three major modern religions with common roots in the ancient near east.

Then why not call it Adamic religions. All three religions begin with adam. That's a better description than abrahamic as abrahamic religion only describes judaism. As I clearly explained. Judaism fundamentally starts with abraham because god formed the first convenant with abraham establishing a jewish people. Abraham doesn't matter at all to christianity as christ negates the covenant between god and abraham.

> These religions have much in common both historically and theologically.

Are you kidding me? Christians and Jews have been attacking each other for thousands of years. Not only are they not common historically and theologically, they directly contradict each other. Judaism believes that jesus is a false prophet rotting in 'hell'. Christianity believes Jesus is God. Judaism believes worshipping christ is a form of idolatry ( one of the worst crimes ). Christians believes in the deification of christ. Judaism allows for usury to gentiles. Christianity is against all usury. Judaism believes in 'an eye for an eye'. Christianity believes in 'turn the other cheek'. Judaism believes god ordains their king ( no separation of church and state ). Christianity believes in 'render unto caesar what is caesar's and render onto god what is god's'.

'Historically, some Jewish writers and scholars have considered Jesus as the most damaging "false prophet"'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism%27s_view_of_Jesus

Judaism has historically believed Jesus as the worst thing to have ever happened in history. Christianity believes Jesus to be the best thing to have ever happened. What commonality? Just because christian bibles include the old testament with the new testament? Many christian bibles only contain the new testament.

If these religions had anything fundamentally in common, we'd only have one religion. Judaism and christianity theologically contradict each other.

While I provide detailed answers describing biblical and historical facts, all my detractors do is reply with petty nonsense like 'theologicians disagree'. Who cares?

> The relationship is similar to that of Hinduism, Jainism and Buddhism.

No it is not. Those religions are actually related to each other but nobody calls them 'buddhaic religions' as it would not be an apt description of those three religions. As I said, there is only one abrahamic religion - judaism.

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