Sinead O’Connor has died • Hacker News Board

Re: Sinead O’Connor has died

#281

Post by anotherthrway » Thu, Jul 27, 2023, 1:18 PM UTC

notnaut wrote: post #278

anotherthrway wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is nothing “progressive” about apostates raving against the belief system they left behind. It demonstrates a lack of maturity, imo. True progressive thought is constructive and positive . Burning scripture, dipping religious symbols in piss, making porn with performers in religious garb, these are all destructive and negative and never a manifestation of progress, enlightenment, or spiritual progress. There is…

This take certainly feels like a perspective only someone entrenched in organized religion could put forward. It is far more courageous, progressive, empowering, and inspirational for a victim of abuse to actively identify and oust their abusers than slump into the type of passivity you advocate for here. There is inherent destructive energy in pinpointing abuse. It’s destructive because these “belief systems” and mo…

“Feels” is accurate. That is merely your personal non-rational response to a position you disagree with. You have no insight into my personal condition whatsoever (and you are entirely off the mark in your feelings).

Sinead (RIP), for example, could have simply recited a line from Jesus regarding what awaits those who harm children (it’s in the Gospels) and held up the picture of the du jour Pope and then list the grievances against that institutions in that regard. Now that would have been a powerful, positive, and progressive, without causing division, and far more effective in causing reflection amongst the faithful of that institutions to do the necessary house cleaning.

The issue here, since it was not clear to you, is the way new understanding, new insights, are to be communicated. The goal remains a Humanity that dwells in harmony and peace after all. Correct?

Re: Sinead O’Connor has died

#282

Post by FrustratedMonky » Thu, Jul 27, 2023, 1:34 PM UTC

anotherthrway wrote: post #277

paulmd wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As slow as it is, society has been making progress. A lot of things that were unthinkable or unsayable in the 90s are in the open now. The arc of history is long but it bends towards justice. It’s sad we’re still fighting on the LGBTQ front but in general it’s notable largely because justice is winning and these are the dying spasms of a hate movement that is losing state favor and is having to fight for its survival…

There is nothing “progressive” about apostates raving against the belief system they left behind. It demonstrates a lack of maturity, imo. True progressive thought is constructive and positive . Burning scripture, dipping religious symbols in piss, making porn with performers in religious garb, these are all destructive and negative and never a manifestation of progress, enlightenment, or spiritual progress. There is…

Have to start somewhere. Sometimes need a little shock to get the message out.

Can't make progress if nobody knows there is a problem, except the victims of course.

Re: Sinead O’Connor has died

#283

Post by notnaut » Thu, Jul 27, 2023, 1:41 PM UTC

anotherthrway wrote: post #281

notnaut wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This take certainly feels like a perspective only someone entrenched in organized religion could put forward. It is far more courageous, progressive, empowering, and inspirational for a victim of abuse to actively identify and oust their abusers than slump into the type of passivity you advocate for here. There is inherent destructive energy in pinpointing abuse. It’s destructive because these “belief systems” and mo…

“Feels” is accurate. That is merely your personal non-rational response to a position you disagree with. You have no insight into my personal condition whatsoever (and you are entirely off the mark in your feelings). Sinead (RIP), for example, could have simply recited a line from Jesus regarding what awaits those who harm children (it’s in the Gospels) and held up the picture of the du jour Pope and then list the gr…

My bad. Took offense to the notion that there’s nothing courageous about taking bricks out from the foundation of your master’s house.

Do you see a way to this goal without destruction?

Re: Sinead O’Connor has died

#284

Post by anotherthrway » Thu, Jul 27, 2023, 2:28 PM UTC

notnaut wrote: post #283

anotherthrway wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Feels” is accurate. That is merely your personal non-rational response to a position you disagree with. You have no insight into my personal condition whatsoever (and you are entirely off the mark in your feelings). Sinead (RIP), for example, could have simply recited a line from Jesus regarding what awaits those who harm children (it’s in the Gospels) and held up the picture of the du jour Pope and then list the gr…

My bad. Took offense to the notion that there’s nothing courageous about taking bricks out from the foundation of your master’s house. Do you see a way to this goal without destruction?

Since Christianity is topical here, let’s see what we can find in Christian lore to help us understand the way of the superior human being when confronting corruption in religion, clergy, and institutions.

There is a well known incident as related to us in the Hadith of Jesus son of Mary. One day “the morality police” of the Pharisee apparently thought they were being clever in shooting two birds with one stone (pun intended). They went to the quarter where prostitutes worked and dragged a woman caught in the act and brought her before that lovely one. This was to discredit him before the Israelites as his progressive and luminous teachings were indeed a threat to their station of power and prestige and control over the people. Jesus did not tear them a new one using words (even though certainly capable of it) nor did he pick up the stone and throw it at them (even though they certainly deserved it).

No. What he did was silently allude to the poor grasp of the people of the actual Law, and then with a simple statement he not only confronted the Pharisees with their own corruption and sinful nature, but also saved a soul from certain death. To their credit, the Pharisees in question were ‘self-reflective’ enough to get the message and leave in peace.

This is how he was inviting people to a superior understanding without alienating them (!) and at the same time clearly establishing the guilt of the standing church and its priests. In fact, this way was so effective that the Sanhedrin decided that they had to get rid of him, intent on murdering him.

Re: Sinead O’Connor has died

#285

Post by Slava_Propanei » Thu, Jul 27, 2023, 2:34 PM UTC

notnaut wrote: post #283

anotherthrway wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Feels” is accurate. That is merely your personal non-rational response to a position you disagree with. You have no insight into my personal condition whatsoever (and you are entirely off the mark in your feelings). Sinead (RIP), for example, could have simply recited a line from Jesus regarding what awaits those who harm children (it’s in the Gospels) and held up the picture of the du jour Pope and then list the gr…

My bad. Took offense to the notion that there’s nothing courageous about taking bricks out from the foundation of your master’s house. Do you see a way to this goal without destruction?

[dead]

Re: Sinead O’Connor has died

#286

Post by goodbyesf » Thu, Jul 27, 2023, 2:58 PM UTC

mcluck wrote: post #236

goodbyesf wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This might just be a cynical atheist's interpretation of Abrahamic religions There is only one abrahamic religion - judaism. Judaism confers eternal salvation and israel to the descendants of abraham. People forget that judaism is an ethnicity first and religion second. Hence why you can be an atheist jew. The convenant between god and abraham and his descendant is what makes a religion abrahamic. 'On that day the…

Incorrect https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrahamic_religions

No. I'm correct. From your link: 'The Abrahamic religions are a group of religions centered around the worship of the God of Abraham. Abraham, a Hebrew patriarch,[1][2] is extensively mentioned throughout the Abrahamic religious scriptures of the Quran, and the Hebrew and Christian Bibles.'

As I said, only judaism worships the god of abraham. As I showed, the god of abraham said ONLY the descendants of abraham are his 'chosen people' and hence only the descendants of abraham are able to attain salvation.

Christians worship the god of christ, not the god of abraham because the god of christ allows non-descendants of abraham ( 99.999% of all christians around the world ) to be saved. The same logic applies to islam.

In other words, if christians worship the god of abraham, then it would mean christians believe they are going to hell while jews go to heaven. Does that sound like christianity to you? I grew up christian and that doesn't sound like the christianity I grew up with. Christians believe jews forsaked god and jews are destined for hell. That's why god sent christ to form a new convenant with all humanity. Hence the new testament vs the old testament.

The abrahamic religion nonsense is a political creation like judeo-christian. It's self-contradictory nonsense invented purely to advance a political agenda.

Re: Sinead O’Connor has died

#287

Post by jgwil2 » Thu, Jul 27, 2023, 3:57 PM UTC

goodbyesf wrote: post #286

mcluck wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incorrect https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrahamic_religions

No. I'm correct. From your link: 'The Abrahamic religions are a group of religions centered around the worship of the God of Abraham. Abraham, a Hebrew patriarch,[1][2] is extensively mentioned throughout the Abrahamic religious scriptures of the Quran, and the Hebrew and Christian Bibles.' As I said, only judaism worships the god of abraham. As I showed, the god of abraham said ONLY the descendants of abraham are hi…

> It's self-contradictory nonsense invented purely to advance a political agenda.

No, it's not. It's meant to describe three major modern religions with common roots in the ancient near east. These religions have much in common both historically and theologically. The relationship is similar to that of Hinduism, Jainism and Buddhism.

Re: Sinead O’Connor has died

#288

Post by mcluck » Thu, Jul 27, 2023, 3:58 PM UTC

goodbyesf wrote: post #286

mcluck wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incorrect https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrahamic_religions

No. I'm correct. From your link: 'The Abrahamic religions are a group of religions centered around the worship of the God of Abraham. Abraham, a Hebrew patriarch,[1][2] is extensively mentioned throughout the Abrahamic religious scriptures of the Quran, and the Hebrew and Christian Bibles.' As I said, only judaism worships the god of abraham. As I showed, the god of abraham said ONLY the descendants of abraham are hi…

I'm not going to argue with you. You can choose to believe that you're correct but your definition does not align with the established definition of the term. I'm not even religious so I don't have a horse in this race.

Re: Sinead O’Connor has died

#289

Post by zeruch » Thu, Jul 27, 2023, 4:37 PM UTC

ogab wrote: post #279

zeruch wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was likely due to her collaborations with both Adrian Sherwood/On-U Sound initially, but she was a long time admirer of roots and dubwise. The caribbean influence in UK/Irish pop culture is much stronger than in the US (other than hip hop).

As a fan of Dub Syndicate, I didn't know they collaborated, thanks for this info. Before seeing her live, I hadn't know a lot about her besides "Nothing Compares 2 U" and of course the SNL controversy... realizing much later she had sung Bob Marley's "War" while wearing red, gold, and green. Just now thinking about her performance of "Vampire" that night is giving me goosebumps. She was a real one.

I'm an On-U Sound obsessive to some degree (I'm an acquaintance with one of Adrian's sound engineers, and I've met a few of the lads from Tackhead) but man the guy gets around. Just this year were new albums from Horace Andy, African Head Charge and this week Creation Rebel announced their first album in 30+ years.

The more post-punk reissues (e.g. New Age Steppers) is also right up my alley.

But yes, I got the impression early on that Sinead had more than passing familiarity with roots and dub. It just seemed to be always at least at the edges of every album in one way or another. On "Faith + Courage" it was quite prominent.

Re: Sinead O’Connor has died

#290

Post by linksnapzz » Thu, Jul 27, 2023, 5:40 PM UTC

clipsy wrote: post #249

linksnapzz wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She wasn't complaining about child abuse (by anyone) onstage at SNL. She ripped up a photo of a pope, who...hadn't abused any children. It was a cheap and safe provocation, and she got the response she wanted. The existence of valid and necessary criticisms of Church conduct doesn't oblige me or anyone to match each of them to some dinky justification for (in this case) performative juvenile attention-seeking. I coul…

> She ripped up a photo of a pope, who...hadn't abused any children. Ah, I guess "just" knowingly covering for repeat child molesters is no big deal. Thanks for clarifying your position.

Covering for whom? He didn't believe the accusations against McCarrick, and Bernard Law was never charged criminally for enabling Geoghan (though he should've been).