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Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

reuters.com

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Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#651

Post by mint2 »

martin8412 wrote: post #419
mint2 wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is an accurate meter, it is not a Tesla problem. My PHEV works the same way, but that fact isn’t really relevant. The meter is presenting you the regeneration “rate” but what you’re thinking of is the regen rate integrated over time, I.e the amount of charge recovered during the process of stopping, which the meter is not showing you.

Maybe, I don't really care about regenerative rate, I just notice my meter going to max when braking hard. I only use the battery for city driving and hard acceleration on the motorway anyway. It's great for merging onto the Spanish motorways.

But the comment showed you do care, you brought it up and pay attention to it. It’s all that the meter shows that you mentioned.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#652

Post by hot_gril »

smsm42 wrote: post #640
hot_gril wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The danger is that he buys a bad Tesla one day. Oh well. This was the position I took with the iPhone 4 long ago because of the nonsense "antennagate" thing. I said forget Consumer Reports, the phone works fine. The tech magazines were (and still are?) also touting the latest "iPhone killer" random Android phone, and I said nah they're paid. If I listened to them, I'd have like a Motorola DROID EpiC XX2.

It's a low-stakes danger for buying a Tesla, probably - though I would never buy one, at least in current design, because I think it's acutely dangerous to be by not having tactile controls that do not require me to look at them - but if it's not a problem for that person, so be it. But in general such approach to evaluating information would make one take bad decisions. > I said forget Consumer Reports, the phone wo…

> If it works for you, then it works for you. It's not the same as saying people for whom it doesn't work are motivated liars, though.

I do suspect there were motivated liars involved, at least the media just wanting to benefit from hyping things up, because the claim was so bogus. I'm not that unique of a person that the iPhone 4 works specially for me. Actual buyers had the option to return the phone if it had issues, and basically nobody was doing that, both anecdotally and by stats.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#653

Post by strix_varius »

machdiamonds wrote: post #639
jvanderbot wrote: post #8

I have a model Y. I hate almost everything about it. But most germane, The "Battery meter" at the top of the display is total bunk. That's got to be "rosy" numbers. It'll display a the battery in miles, but it's at least 25% inflated. However if you punch in a destination, you'll get exact numbers, and those are insanely reliable. It claims (and I don't believe any claims coming from tesla) that it'll factor wind, el…

It's very easy to see how favorably or unfavorably Tesla's claimed range compares to competitors based on independent tests of multiple EVs in the same conditions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LWL90paufE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynCaTDR4rDQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFB6hsYXDiA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvwOa7TCd1E Spoiler alert: Tesla models fare about as well, if not better, than their EV cou…

> Spoiler alert: Tesla models fare about as well, if not better, than their EV cousins, hitting around 80% of the stated range in the wild.

This is not true according to the very article we're discussing here, which across many analysis learned that three Tesla vehicles were the least-accurate (most-optimistic or most-deceptive, depending on your point of view).

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#654

Post by maximus-decimus »

bischofs wrote: post #418
dietsche wrote: post #160

As a Tesla owner, I think the source of the confusion is the EPA range displayed in the HUD on the Tesla. We toggled ours to show the battery percentage, which is much more useful to us. We've never owned a gas vehicle that met it's EPA range and the Tesla is no different. No one takes EPA MPG * GALLONS of gas and expects it to be a real life estimate of range. Wind resistance increases EXPONENTIALLY with speed. Driv…

I think this is a problem because a lot of what people use to shop an EV is the headline range number, which you are declaring is not accurate. This is false advertising.

What do you want them to do? give you a table with your range for each combination of illegal speed, inclination and wind speed?

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#655

Post by PaulMest »

Kosirich wrote: post #283

Carwow did a test fairly recently: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvwOa7TCd1E

I didn't watch the whole video, but found the summary to be helpful. You can see it at 37m21s: https://youtu.be/fvwOa7TCd1E?t=2241

spoiler: Of the 6 cars they tested, Tesla Model Y had the best performance in terms of miles per kWh and total range. But it still clocked in at only 81% of claimed range.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#656

Post by mwint »

mrguyorama wrote: post #621
mwint wrote: post #618

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn’t measure those factors in advance.

It doesn't have to. It measures them in real time, and can integrate over time. Astronomers also don't see into the future but some basic calculations can let them make very accurate predictions about where the planets will be in a month. What the heck is your point?

Okay, so if I give you all the data from my car, and say it has 10.3 gallons of gas, you’re telling me you can predict how many miles it will go to within a percent?

No, you can’t. Because I might go uphill or downhill. It might rain. It might be hot or cold.

The car is doing something tricky (aka lying) as discussed above.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#657

Post by concordDance »

tehwebguy wrote: post #214
jvanderbot wrote: post #8

I have a model Y. I hate almost everything about it. But most germane, The "Battery meter" at the top of the display is total bunk. That's got to be "rosy" numbers. It'll display a the battery in miles, but it's at least 25% inflated. However if you punch in a destination, you'll get exact numbers, and those are insanely reliable. It claims (and I don't believe any claims coming from tesla) that it'll factor wind, el…

We rented one on a trip recently, super annoying to realize the dozen or so chargers in this beach town were actually incompatible or just too slow for real life. On the way back to the drop off autopilot tried to slam us into the Bentley next us! It had been traveling the same direction as us for like 20 minutes and when we passed through an intersection it just jerked hard left and I had to correct it manually. Pos…

> We rented one on a trip recently, super annoying to realize the dozen or so chargers in this beach town were actually incompatible or just too slow for real life.

Where were you that has a dozen chargers but no superchargers?

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#658

Post by matthewdgreen »

wil421 wrote: post #648
matthewdgreen wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The X5 hybrid is a wonderful car to drive, but as an EV it's... not good. You get less than 1/10th the range of a full Tesla Model Y ( The BMW also includes a tiny 16A charger, whereas the old i3 had a 32A charger. This limits charging to ~3 range-miles per hour, making public chargers basically pointless (again compare to the LR Tesla Model Y which has a 48A charger and can add 40+ range-miles in an hour.) In gas-on…

I need to be able to tow about 5,000 from time to time. The B58 will do that and the EV side will get me to work and back without much if any gas. An EV is not an option for my lifestyle at this time. Once my 3 are out of car seats and/or strollers a sedan EV might work. There’s always a Hummer EV or even cyber truck but that’s not quite my cup of tea.

I don’t have towing needs or any real desire for a pickup truck, but the F150 Lightning is what I would buy if I could even slightly justify it. My beef with the X5 is that it’s the opposite of an engineering triumph: its efficiency and EV charging rate are so unnecessarily terrible that I no longer take BMW seriously as a firm that operates in the EV/hybrid space. (And more critically: I am worried that if/when they do become serious about EVs they will toss the whole X5 eDrive drivetrain design in the trash, making it expensive to repair once it leaves warranty.) But if you’re able to make it work for your specific needs, it’s still fun to drive and very comfortable.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#659

Post by concordDance »

01100011 wrote: post #505
jvanderbot wrote: post #8

I have a model Y. I hate almost everything about it. But most germane, The "Battery meter" at the top of the display is total bunk. That's got to be "rosy" numbers. It'll display a the battery in miles, but it's at least 25% inflated. However if you punch in a destination, you'll get exact numbers, and those are insanely reliable. It claims (and I don't believe any claims coming from tesla) that it'll factor wind, el…

Rented a MY a couple months ago and was surprised how much I, and more surprisingly, my wife, hated it. Now, I despise Elon and the risky safety decisions of Tesla engineers, so I'm biased, but I wanted to give them a shot. Range was horrible. We drove about 100 miles and spent a couple hours over several sessions at superchargers. The handling and turning radius sucked. The controls were frighteningly distracting an…

> We drove about 100 miles and spent a couple hours over several sessions at superchargers

Honestly I don't believe this. Requiring two hours sessions in 100 miles is an absolutely extraordinary claim, requiring something to be extremely wrong with the car in some way that didnt brick it entirely.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#660

Post by glogla »

Aloha wrote: post #555
glogla wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The engine by itself produces a lot of waste heat. But modern engines are more efficient and take a while to warm up (especially diesels, but small turbos like Honda 1.5 too) so cars sometimes implement resistive heating to heat the cabin quicker. Also some cars have independent heating that can be used to heat up the car up without running an engine. Not sure how exactly it works but I think it uses special battery.…

Which ICE cars use resistive heating? I've never seen an alternator large enough on an ICE car to do it. (I'm also skeptical of how well that'd work on a 12v electrical system)

See this https://shops.audi.com/en_GB/web/zubehoer/p/retrofit-solutio... for example. I can only assume it's resistive, since it doesn't start the engine - but it might be a system for running the AC heatpump without engine, maybe. Also now that I think of it, window defrost is resistive.

I would guess system like this would be rare in US, because you are allowed to have remote start on your cars.

edit: never mind, it burns fuel https://www.auditech.org/acont-1427.html

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