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Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

reuters.com

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Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#581

Post by mikestew »

b112 wrote: post #544
mikestew wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last I checked, small claims court in more than one state tops out at well under $10K. Hence the adjective “small”. IOW, you ain’t getting $20K out of small claims court.

Huh, 25k where I am, but in Canuck bucks. Still, even 10k is better than 0k. And many small claims courts forbit compelled discovery. I paid $100, had no lawyer, wrote 2 pages of "what happened", served the paperwork by hand (and went back to the court and gave an affidavit to that effect), and ... The other side "big corp" had a law firm, and several lawyers. I paid $100 and spent a few hours. The paid 50k to their…

The other side "big corp" had a law firm, and several lawyers.

Interesting: no lawyers in U. S. small claims court. That probably has something to do with the lower dollar limits in the U. S., but IANAL nor spend much time in court.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#582

Post by Xylakant »

dghlsakjg wrote: post #436
lancesells wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The use of AC / Heat will also just burn through your battery or your gas at a much faster rate.

Slight nitpick: Using heat won't affect gas consumption of an ICE car. The heat is waste heat that otherwise would be dissipated through the radiator at the front of the car. Turning on the heat diverts coolant to a heat exchanger (tiny radiator) in the ventilation system that warms the air in the cabin.

Old trick for people that had cars with somewhat inadequate cooling systems: open the windows, turn on the heating to full helps to cool the engine.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#583

Post by cs702 »

dmode wrote: post #574
cs702 wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. At the moment, I think Teslas are the best vehicles available for purchase on the market, electric or otherwise: They have great performance, great reliability, long-lasting materials (my oldest Tesla still feels new!), decent service, and amazing charging infrastructure (at least in the US). In 1-2 years, I'm hopeful other automakers, including MB, BMW, and Audi, will come out with new EVs that are truly compet…

Teslas absolute don't have long-lasting materials or great reliability or great performance. There have been hundreds of thousands of articles and experience about poor materials, build quality, reliability etc. I have owned both a Model S and Model 3, and I did own them because I wanted to support an EV maker, but they are by far some of the worst made cars I have owned. I switched back to a BMW EV and its like nigh…

Not my experience. Let me add that at first, I thought the materials and build of my first Tesla felt "cheap" and "plasticky." Over time, however, I've been pleasantly surprised at how well they've held up.

My oldest Tesla is now three years old, and it still looks and feels new. I could never say that about the BMWs, MBs, and Porsches I've owned over the years.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#584

Post by jotux »

samwillis wrote: post #213
jvanderbot wrote: post #8

I have a model Y. I hate almost everything about it. But most germane, The "Battery meter" at the top of the display is total bunk. That's got to be "rosy" numbers. It'll display a the battery in miles, but it's at least 25% inflated. However if you punch in a destination, you'll get exact numbers, and those are insanely reliable. It claims (and I don't believe any claims coming from tesla) that it'll factor wind, el…

The solution is to not show miles on the basic battery meter, just percentage. Maybe show a rage next to it - 130-160 miles. But that too honest. ICE cars all show a percentage, and maybe additionally a mileage on newer cars . The fact that they threw that away is a little silly.

>The fact that they threw that away is a little silly.

You state this as a fact, but it's completely incorrect. It has been an option since at least 2018 to change the indicator to percentage.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#585

Post by javajosh »

ulfw wrote: post #502
javajosh wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be great. I'd go further: I want mechanical linkages for throttle, breaks, and steering. No more "drive by wire". I cannot, will not trust my families safety to a smartphone with wheels.

So you only fly old Boeings (not new ones like the 787 or even the 777) and no Airbusses?

If those vehicles are connected to the internet and there is a path of control from the internet to control surfaces, yes.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#586

Post by Sparkyte »

banannaise wrote: post #580
Sparkyte wrote: post #578

The driving range isn't bad though. You just need to know what you're getting into when you do your research. I'm not justifying Tesla. I'm saying that most complaints are users who don't research the product before using it. This gives me a headache.

> You just need to know what you're getting into when you do your research. If only they didn't have a secret team to suppress the kind of things you would really want your research to turn up.

More like damage control and most companies do this to prevent people from seeing too much contradicting information. Like walking into reddit for a new video game where everyone complains about a small design choice of the game itself. Tesla on their page tells you the range, you can go into google maps and search travel distance and figure out if a tesla fits your needs.

Complaints on lack of research into a product skew product interest. A company's job is to create an image and maintain it.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#587

Post by enragedcacti »

Aloha wrote: post #555
glogla wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The engine by itself produces a lot of waste heat. But modern engines are more efficient and take a while to warm up (especially diesels, but small turbos like Honda 1.5 too) so cars sometimes implement resistive heating to heat the cabin quicker. Also some cars have independent heating that can be used to heat up the car up without running an engine. Not sure how exactly it works but I think it uses special battery.…

Which ICE cars use resistive heating? I've never seen an alternator large enough on an ICE car to do it. (I'm also skeptical of how well that'd work on a 12v electrical system)

Hybrids will commonly have them so they can run climate control independent of the engine (at least until the HV battery gets too low) and also bring coolant temp up faster. It seems like they are usually called the PTC heater or supplemental heater.

Ford also seems to offer them as an option (e.g. as part of the cold weather package)for a number of their straight ICE vehicles like the Bronco sport, Escape, or F-150.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#588

Post by dinom »

mannykannot wrote: post #569
wintogreen74 wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> You still have the mechanical resistance of turning the rotor, Isn't this exactly what regenerative braking is? There's no mechanical disconnect between the wheels and the motor (i.e. a clutch) so pushing the car essentially turns it into a generator.

Your second sentence is correct, but it takes a lot more torque to turn a generator at a given speed when it is driving current through a load, than it does when it is open-circuit. Inside the motor/generator, what happens is that if there's current flowing in the windings as a result of the EMF induced by turning the rotor, then, loosely speaking, it creates a magnetic field which opposes the rotation - but if it is…

Correct me if I'm wrong but, if I understand things correctly... at this point we're wondering if manual locking hubs are a better (or worse) solution than electrically isolating the motor(s). Right?

And, off the top of my head I'm going to say the manual locking hubs will be better overall. Better from an energy efficiency perspective as well as overall convenience and simplicity of design. They might be worse for Tesla's P&L though since anyone with a tire jack and a standard parts dealer nearby could work on the car.

Then again, besides the fact that I'm a cynic... what the heck do I really know!??!

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#589

Post by vel0city »

ethanbond wrote: post #579
vel0city wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As mentioned, I spend more time and deal with more of an overall hassle recharging my ICE than my EV despite going on more road trips and putting more miles on my EV than my ICE. And my EV is about the worst range option of the model line I bought and doesn't charge as fast as other options on the market today, so it's arguably not that great of a road trip EV. Having an EV can absolutely be a viable choice for these…

Meh, I drove NYC Montreal in a $90,000 Tesla and I frequently drive NYC Raleigh in a $35,000 Acura. There is a 0% chance you'll convince me that the Tesla is the superior experience. It's not even remotely close. Granted Teslas aren't really the "nice" EVs these days anyway and not all of the badness of the Tesla experience was due to range/charging issues.

Are you really arguing the average car frequently makes 500mi+ road trips?

Either way, your NYC Raliegh trip would be like 26 minutes of charging on an 8 hour road trip. Do you really not stop for somewhat that kind of time for an 8 hour road trip? You don't stop to eat for a minute, you race through the gas station as fast as possible, etc? I know for me I'd probably want to stop a couple of times sitting for eight hours.

You're really arguing the average driver frequently makes nearly non-stop eight hour road trips?

https://abetterrouteplanner.com/?plan_uuid=34769a63-3845-47a...

I'm definitely not talking about which car is the most luxurious or comfortable. There's a lot of subjectivity to styling. I'm not really a fan of the Tesla style, but it's not like all EVs are Tesla's and they definitely don't all cost $90k.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#590

Post by moduspol »

steveBK123 wrote: post #556
moduspol wrote: post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not erring on the side of the absolute best state. The EPA-rated miles represent a standardized mix of highway and city miles. The best state would be over 600 miles [1]. It's erring on the side of consistency, as it's also representing the battery's state of charge. It would only serve to confuse users to try and guess whether the current trip is a highway or city drive, will end in the next minute or two hours…

Look, I get it, some people love these cars and will stand no criticism, fine. I had one, they are lovely. We are allowed to want things we like to be better. But all the "just use nav estimate" arguments miss that some people drive more than one place? If I am driving out an hour to do some shopping, visit my parents, and then drive back.. it may be a total of 90mi but the first leg is 30mi. Do I need to pre-enter m…

I get it, too. I've seen some people that resort to ad hominems online. We are allowed to evaluate suggestions critically.

The other places in the UI are either based on either the destination you've entered or the last 5, 15, or X miles driven. They only make sense in that context: Just using one of those numbers on the dashboard would be misleading and inconsistent.

Guessing based on the Wh/m of your last ten drives might be a closer estimate, but would be wrong if your next drive isn't like your last ten. It might even be more accurate when guessing your last nine drives, so then you learn to trust it, but those were city miles, and for the next drive, it's highway miles. And now the estimate is way off.

It's just meaningless. We'd quickly learn that the number given is a bad estimate that can't be trusted and needs to be adjusted based on the way you'll actually be driving and other real world conditions... and that's where we already are. The only difference is that currently it's at least consistent, both between trips in the same car and from one car to another. This additional guesstimate would just add more confusion.

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