Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 769 posts

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#41

Post by londons_explore »

TheAlchemist wrote: post #5

That's a pretty damning article and it looks like there are more and more of those coming. Tesla still somehow benefits from its innovators / clean company reputation, but at this pace it won't be long before agencies start to act on what's become much more than just 'optimistic marketing'.

I'd like to see more data...

For example, if you get 10 tesla cars of the same model, do the ranges differ?

If you get 1 car and 10 different drivers, do some drivers get the advertised range while others don't?

If you disassemble the battery packs, do you find some bad/degraded cells in cars with reduced range, or is this a design fault?

Do drivers that have trouble have inefficient mods, like roof racks, big wheels, etc?

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#42

Post by wil421 »

PhilipA wrote: post #17
jvanderbot wrote: post #8

I have a model Y. I hate almost everything about it. But most germane, The "Battery meter" at the top of the display is total bunk. That's got to be "rosy" numbers. It'll display a the battery in miles, but it's at least 25% inflated. However if you punch in a destination, you'll get exact numbers, and those are insanely reliable. It claims (and I don't believe any claims coming from tesla) that it'll factor wind, el…

I had a Tesla Model 3 which was very optimistic with the range. My BMW iX3 however is quite conservative and I can usually drive longer than the display states.

We don’t have the iX3 in the US (yet?). I was looking at the x5 plug in hybrid with ~40 miles electric range and the normal b58 straight 6 motor. My wife has the X7, we have 3 kids and hobbies so I’m not sure if even an i5 would work. The new X5 headlights are not my favorite.

Do you like the BMW electric system?

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#43

Post by draw_down »

aaomidi wrote: post #24
jvanderbot wrote: post #8

I have a model Y. I hate almost everything about it. But most germane, The "Battery meter" at the top of the display is total bunk. That's got to be "rosy" numbers. It'll display a the battery in miles, but it's at least 25% inflated. However if you punch in a destination, you'll get exact numbers, and those are insanely reliable. It claims (and I don't believe any claims coming from tesla) that it'll factor wind, el…

[flagged]

[dead]

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#44

Post by speedgoose »

> “We’re looking at the range, and you literally see the number decrease in front of your eyes,” he said of his dashboard range meter.

Well, I’m not sure what the range meter is supposed to do? Freeze when an eye tracker detects the driver looks at it?

Or maybe he was idling the car in cold weather. Even without the heater running, the battery cools down and that can reduce the range.

Electric vehicles aren’t perfect and some little education can prevent a lot of frustration.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#45

Post by Y_Y »

antisthenes wrote: post #33
WatchDog wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like it’s common across all EVs for the range to be inflated by around 20%, at least for freeway driving. In a recent review, a Tesla did a slightly better job than most of the cars tested, as far as portion of stated range achieved. https://youtu.be/fvwOa7TCd1E&t=36m15s

> Seems like it’s common across all EVs for the range to be inflated by around 20%, at least for freeway driving. Most people speed on the freeway. Extra speed reduces range significantly.

IMHO comments like this are much more valuable with some numbers.

The linked figure[0] and associated paper report that efficiency peaks for EVs at around 20mph and then the cost per mile increases roughly linearly, by about 25 watt-hours when the speed increases by 10mph.

Please excuse the archaic units.

[0] https://www.researchgate.net/figure/ehicle-energy-economy-at...

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#46

Post by Y-bar »

antisthenes wrote: post #33
WatchDog wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like it’s common across all EVs for the range to be inflated by around 20%, at least for freeway driving. In a recent review, a Tesla did a slightly better job than most of the cars tested, as far as portion of stated range achieved. https://youtu.be/fvwOa7TCd1E&t=36m15s

> Seems like it’s common across all EVs for the range to be inflated by around 20%, at least for freeway driving. Most people speed on the freeway. Extra speed reduces range significantly.

This.

And it is true of petrol cars as well. In my old clunker going from 110 km/h to 120km/h is a 9% speed increase but nets about 15% extra fuel consumption.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#48

Post by HWR_14 »

tekla wrote: post #34
AuthorizedCust wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have it backwards. The car serves you. You should not have to serve the car (beyond universal, traditional things, like the need to maintain, insure, etc.). It’s reasonable to ask for a range estimate that’s not naively optimistic.

It is not naively optimistic. I just finished a 2500 mile drive with a Tesla Y and its estimates are pretty much within 1-2% of my actual usage.

As the article (or another poster) points out, you get a different algorithm when you look at the dash on a random day vs. when the Tesla knows you are going on a trip. That's even more damning to me.

Edit: Also a different algorithm when below 50% charged. As some of the replies point out, a destination does supply more information. The current charge level does not.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#49

Post by ke88y »

bigdang wrote: post #29

Giving optimistic estimates based on generalized vehicle information, then giving more precise estimates after the 50% mark—and after having collected usage information based on the user’s actual environment—sounds to me like a decent algorithmic solution to a hard problem.

That only makes sense if there's strong correlation between the first 50% of a charge and the second 50% of a charge, but NOT an equally strong correlation between the previous charge cycle and the current charge cycle.

That can be the case (eg on road trips) but usually isn't.

Why not just always give the more precise estimates?

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#50

Post by vel0city »

galangalalgol wrote: post #18
furyg3 wrote: post #6

Since cars have integrated phone-home diagnostic software, why would the government even allow automakers to advertise 'estimated' ranges for specific car models and not simply show actual averages?

I had an uber driver that said his 3 had less than half the range when temperatures got over 100F (38C). I imagine that is just the increased load from the cooling system. My Y sounds like a combustion car the ac runs so loud the past couple months. I leave the display on battery percentage because the range counts down very quickly in this heat. But it doesn't when it is nice out. Cold decreases the range because th…

On a lot of ICE cars there's definitely a hit to running the AC.

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/hotweather.shtml

Personally my ICE goes from ~22-23mpg to ~19 when it's like 100F outside. That's a 17% drop in mileage. My EV has had a bit of a hit but not nearly as much, Heating is usually "free" energy-wise though since the gas motor is just leaking massive amounts of heat all the time.

Post reply on HN