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Sinead O’Connor has died

irishtimes.com

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Re: Sinead O’Connor has died

#251

Post by tycho-newman »

29athrowaway wrote: post #221
dhucerbin wrote: post #213

I was growing up in Poland in the height of John Paul II cult. I was raised in atheist family and I was getting some tidbits about my grandfathers brother who was sexually assaulted by a priest. Today it sounds a little bit silly but that SNL performance was the validation I needed to navigate my environment outside my home. Now I learned a lot about issues in Catholic Church and I understand this stuff better but I’…

Archbishop Wojtyła helped overthrow communist regime in the Polish People's Republic, which caused significant hardship among Polish people. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_People%27s_Republic

Bold move, deploying the Epstein defense!

Sure he enabled thousands of child molesters, but at least he was against communism.

Re: Sinead O’Connor has died

#252

Post by listenallyall »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #250
listenallyall wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we're trying to sell/watching a entertainment products here, and now you've just gone and made things intense I know the enlightened viewpoint is that tearing up the pope's photo was brave and progressive, that Sinead was ahead of her time in recognizing the faults of the Catholic church -- but yes, exactly, she absolutely failed to "read the room." SNL in the early 90s was one of the best eras, but it was also one…

Why do you think she wanted positive attention? Believe it or not, not everybody is selling themselves all the time.

I don't claim she wanted positive attention to her music, to sell more records or anything. Likely the opposite, who knows. But when people protest, they do so to bring attention to some cause, that's the point of the protest. As she tore the photo, Sinead said into the mic on live television "fight the real enemy," referring to the church. But it totally backfired, instead of taking her claims seriously, the majority of Catholics rallied behind the church and the very popular pope, and any investigation into the darkside of the church was likely delayed for a decade or more.

Re: Sinead O’Connor has died

#253

Post by JohnBooty »

cbsmith wrote: post #195
JohnBooty wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And tragically, I don't remember this ever being reported in the US at the time. She was largely portrayed as a vapid attention-seeker and it was as if the head-shaving was just like... one of her "wild and crazy" acts. Now, this was the mid-80s. Media was so much more centralized. I was a kid, and all you really had was the news bites that were served to you. Theoretically some enterprising kid/person could have rea…

> And tragically, I don't remember this ever being reported in the US at the time. It was reported. It's just those facts didn't get in the way of portraying her as a vapid attention-seeker.

It was reported, but... it was the 80s. Essentially, nothing was on-demand. If something was reported but you didn't catch the news that day... you missed it.

Re: Sinead O’Connor has died

#254

Post by lsllc »

If you're a Simple Minds fan, Sinead sang a very moving verse or two with Jim Kerr in a rendition of Belfast Child at the Night of the Proms (Antwerp, Belgium, 2008):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAe0HCHJTDA

Interestingly, Belfast Child was based on She Moved Through the Fair which Sinead sang here 11 years prior [to the aforementioned Night of the Proms]:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWIaP0NnEOQ

Re: Sinead O’Connor has died

#255

Post by dang »

jawns wrote: post #220
dang wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The flagged comments I'm aware of are either taking the thread into flamewar, and/or on generic tangents. Those are correct uses of flags. If there's something I've missed about this, I'm happy to take a look, but I'd need a specific link. "Robust" can mean a lot of things. HN's intended purpose is curious conversation. If we allow the predictably-outraged type of thread here, it will quickly take over discussion of…

My comment was flagged, even though I was trying to provide context to explain why she experienced such a strong reaction to her SNL stunt. The parent comment and many supportive sibling comments remain unflagged, which leaves the impression that I was downvoted and flagged simply because people didn't like a more critical viewpoint, not because the comment lacked substance or was intended to inflame.

Ok, I've turned the flags off that comment.

Re: Sinead O’Connor has died

#256

Post by bryanrasmussen »

nmfisher wrote: post #217
bryanrasmussen wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to refuse to stand for the pledge of allegiance in high school and get threatened with being beat up, I guess it was a thing at the time.

My mother - an Australian citizen - went to school in Texas in the 60s and caused a big stir because she wouldn't recite the Pledge of Allegiance (because why would she? She wasn't American).

exactly, I wasn't an American citizen and had no interest in becoming one so standing for the pledge seemed a little bit too much, although I suspect knowing my anti-authoritarian tendencies I might have refused anyway. But at any rate had to be ready to defend myself anyway.

Re: Sinead O’Connor has died

#257

Post by bryanrasmussen »

schoen wrote: post #231
nailer wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ok

Similarities: In both cases, people are offended that their religious sensibilities were hurt, and many of them want to lash out angrily against those who offended them. Some of them say that no one should have the right to offend them this way. Some of them try to find a way to retaliate against those who offended them. Differences: In one case, a dozen people are murdered; in the other case, not.

right, considering people were murdered we could say that the second case was a worse example of retaliation for feeling offended.

They were similar in type but different in outcome.

Re: Sinead O’Connor has died

#258

Post by bryanrasmussen »

tetrep wrote: post #198
adnanc wrote: post #190

Announcing her conversion, she said, "This is to announce that I am proud to have become a Muslim. This is the natural conclusion of any intelligent theologian's journey. All scripture study leads to Islam. Which makes all other scriptures redundant."

That sort of phrasing is almost to be expected, no? This might just be a cynical atheist's interpretation of Abrahamic religions, but Islam seems to be loosely doing the same thing to Christianity that Christianity did to Judaism, i.e. it purports to be the next theological evolution and therefore all practioniers of {current_religion} should rationally convert and download the latest religious firmware. I was going…

I'm not sure I'd agree, depending on if the intelligent theologian needs to have decent literary taste - the Book of Mormon is an annoying slog.

But as for a new one, given the central premise of the Book of Mormon it is obvious that Jesus must also have appeared and preached to the aborigines in Australia shortly after his death to give them the chance of salvation as well. Perhaps a psychedelic novella about Jesus and the Dreamtime.

Re: Sinead O’Connor has died

#259

Post by bryanrasmussen »

subpixel wrote: post #50
jawns wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you strongly agree with her criticism of the pope, the way that she expressed that criticism -- by deceiving everyone on SNL to pull off her stunt -- certainly branded her as a loose cannon in the industry. Unpredictability might entertain audiences, but it's a huge liability from an entertainment industry perspective. And arguably, her antics greatly overshadowed the message she was trying to get across. How…

Elvis Costello lied to SNL as well, and then produced one of the best musical performances on that show, _ever_. Elvis was protesting corporate control and homogeneity. Sinead was protesting institutions that enabled evil. Who cares if some suits were made uncomfortable.

I remember reading an article in which Costello was evidently offended by some of the comedians being jerks - Bill Murray figures in - but reading this https://www.billboard.com/music/rock/elvis-costello-recalls-... it seems more like 'protesting corporate control' as you wrote.

Re: Sinead O’Connor has died

#260

Post by bryanrasmussen »

linksnapzz wrote: post #188
tooriel wrote: post #182

Her performance on SNL was a sign-act (prophetic gesture) in the purest sense of the word.

As was Joe Pesci’s response to her a week later.

right I remember seeing that Joe Pesci thing and thinking man, I'd like to kick that guy's ass, but I guess that's almost as wrong as him saying he'd like to physically assault a woman on TV to applause.
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