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Sinead O’Connor has died

irishtimes.com

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Re: Sinead O’Connor has died

#231

Post by schoen »

nailer wrote: post #194
robertlagrant wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A crowd of people booing Sinead O Connor 30 years ago is very similar to people attacking Charlie Hebdo in 2015 Erm. I don't think it's that similar.

ok

Similarities: In both cases, people are offended that their religious sensibilities were hurt, and many of them want to lash out angrily against those who offended them. Some of them say that no one should have the right to offend them this way. Some of them try to find a way to retaliate against those who offended them.

Differences: In one case, a dozen people are murdered; in the other case, not.

Re: Sinead O’Connor has died

#232

Post by clipsy »

bachmeier wrote: post #189
isykt wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The second Iraq war started when I was in junior high, that’s when I stopped standing for the pledge and kept it through high school. There was a big discussion about whether students could be reprimanded, but ultimately I think it was decided that refusal was a form of free speech. I was proud of that, and so were my parents.

It was decided long ago: https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/west-virginia-v.-barnett... There was a Jehovah's Witness in our school. And of course he would not participate, leading some of the other kids to want to beat him up. They only gave up after they were threatened by the school and told by their parents that they have to respect other views. That was long ago, when the US valued civility. These days the pare…

Just because it was decided a long time ago doesn't mean school administrators have stopped being petty authoritarians. The school district I was attending at the time tried to push mandatory recital of the pledge every morning and after pushback (nothing in the courts, unfortunately) settled on the absurd policy that you don't have to recite the pledge, but you need to stand, put your hand on your chest, and pretend to recite the pledge. I wish I'd had the insight at the time to do an end-run around my parents and contact the ACLU about it, but oh well.

Re: Sinead O’Connor has died

#233

Post by clipsy »

linksnapzz wrote: post #227
tooriel wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unremarkable and forgotten.

Were that the case, I’m sure I would’ve gotten fewer downvotes. ;) Just the same though; JP2 would’ve certainly not held the poor woman’s fit of pique against her.

"the poor woman's fit of pique" -- are you defending the Catholic church's history of rampant child abuse, or do you think there is perhaps a less dismissive and condescending way to phrase this?

Re: Sinead O’Connor has died

#234

Post by dredmorbius »

paulette449 wrote: post #99
legerdemain wrote: post #48

The irony of being outlived by Shane MacGowan.

He has outlived Kirsty MacColl (co-singer on Fairytale of New York) by 23 years and counting. Her death was a tragedy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirsty_MacColl#Death

I'd discovered MacColl hearing a song of hers on a college radio station whilst road-tripping, and promptly failed to correctly remember the lyrics for years. Eventually got them right ("England Two, Columbia Nil"), and found the artist ... only to learn she'd died, likely shortly before I'd heard that song.

Then discovered I'd known her all along through the Pogue's "Fairytale of New York", a/k/a The Only Honest Christmas Carol Evar, which I'd first heard well over a decade earlier.

Re: Sinead O’Connor has died

#235

Post by clipsy »

CydeWeys wrote: post #98
bmmayer1 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was arguably one of the first "cancellations" before "cancel culture" was a thing we were talking about. Right or wrong, what she did was definitely courageous and arguably destroyed her career.

> This was arguably one of the first "cancellations" before "cancel culture" was a thing we were talking about. Um, I think the 1,500+ year history of the Catholic church would beg to differ here ... And even before that, Socrates was so canceled for his views he was killed by the state.

Not to mention that only a few short decades ago homosexuals had to meticulously hide their sexuality and any of their relationships for fear of getting fired simply because of who they were (and, before that, imprisoned!). And countless other examples. Anyone who believes "cancel culture" is a recent development is breathtakingly ignorant.

Re: Sinead O’Connor has died

#236

Post by mcluck »

goodbyesf wrote: post #225
tetrep wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sort of phrasing is almost to be expected, no? This might just be a cynical atheist's interpretation of Abrahamic religions, but Islam seems to be loosely doing the same thing to Christianity that Christianity did to Judaism, i.e. it purports to be the next theological evolution and therefore all practioniers of {current_religion} should rationally convert and download the latest religious firmware. I was going…

> This might just be a cynical atheist's interpretation of Abrahamic religions There is only one abrahamic religion - judaism. Judaism confers eternal salvation and israel to the descendants of abraham. People forget that judaism is an ethnicity first and religion second. Hence why you can be an atheist jew. The convenant between god and abraham and his descendant is what makes a religion abrahamic. 'On that day the…

Incorrect https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrahamic_religions

Re: Sinead O’Connor has died

#237

Post by dredmorbius »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #124
spamizbad wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you look at historic examples of cancel culture its almost absurd at how tame their offenses were. Dixie Chicks are another example that come to mind where critical but not controversial statements are made and it ruined people's careers.

Robert J. Oppenheimer

McCarthyism, the Red Scare, and the Hollywood Blacklist of the 1950s.

Untold Black American artists, authors, and creatives who fled to Europe: Nina Simone, James Baldwin, Josephine Baker, Paul Robeson, Augusta Savage, Romare Bearden, Jessie Fauset, and Richard Wright just off the top of my head.

Re: Sinead O’Connor has died

#238

Post by dredmorbius »

dang wrote: post #142
synetic wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve been on this site since the beginning. I change usernames periodically. I understand the desire to avoid flame wars. Here’s a sincere question. If I called Charles Manson a bastard would that be flamebait? Are we at the point that calling out the objectively verified despicable acts of a person is flamebait? It wasn’t a swipe at the man. Sinead suffered a lot for ripping his image apart. She has died now. It is…

"That bastard John Paul II" was obvious flamebait—of course it was a swipe. You're broadcasting to thousands of people when you post here. Did you really think some people wouldn't react? Is it a high-quality conversation about Sinead O'Connor to have people yell at each other about popes? > It’s always ok to call out those who abuse or protect abusers. I care not that my post got flagged. I’m glad of it. I feel a ti…

Talking truth to power is virtually always a swipe. But a richly deserved one.

I understand HN's viewpoint on this. I disagree with it in the extreme.

Re: Sinead O’Connor has died

#239

Post by dredmorbius »

subpixel wrote: post #50
jawns wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you strongly agree with her criticism of the pope, the way that she expressed that criticism -- by deceiving everyone on SNL to pull off her stunt -- certainly branded her as a loose cannon in the industry. Unpredictability might entertain audiences, but it's a huge liability from an entertainment industry perspective. And arguably, her antics greatly overshadowed the message she was trying to get across. How…

Elvis Costello lied to SNL as well, and then produced one of the best musical performances on that show, _ever_. Elvis was protesting corporate control and homogeneity. Sinead was protesting institutions that enabled evil. Who cares if some suits were made uncomfortable.

In 1977: "The ultimate act of punk defiance that got Elvis Costello banned from 'Saturday Night Live'"

Costello, his label and the show’s producers, had agreed prior to the show that they would perform their catchy single ‘Less Than Zero’, a track which was written about disgraced British politician Oswald Mosley who, at the time, was the former leader of the British Union of Fascists. However, as the lights of the famous studio glared down upon him, Costello wouldn’t miss his opportunity. While it certainly was considered the band’s biggest opportunity commercial to date, Costello put a stop to the performance mid-intro, yelling: “Stop! Stop!” in the direction of his band. “I’m sorry, ladies and gentlemen,” he said before adding: “But there’s no reason to do this song here”.

Instead, Costello and his band rolled into a performance of the song ‘Radio Radio’ which, controversially, includes lyrics that criticised the commercialisation of the airwaves in both television and radio as well as pointed the finger at corporate-controlled broadcasting. Costello had certainly made his statement clear and in the middle of one of the most hostile environments....

https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/elvis-costello-banned-snl-video...>

Re: Sinead O’Connor has died

#240

Post by [deleted] »

inamorty wrote: post #228
29athrowaway wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Archbishop Wojtyła helped overthrow communist regime in the Polish People's Republic, which caused significant hardship among Polish people. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_People%27s_Republic

Read this one as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_John_Paul_II#Sexual_abuse...

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