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Rethinking Window Management

blogs.gnome.org

201–210 of 272 posts

Re: Rethinking Window Management

#201

People generally have pretty good spatial sensibilities, and I feel like modern OS designers seem to forget this. You feel this especially on iPadOS. Physically arranging windows allows for a much more solid multi-tasking experience, and encouraged direct manipulation of content e.g. drag and drop. Transient "palette" or "panel" windows allow for a short term buffer (think a find/replace panel). To me, this is what m…

You made me think about how my phone has 5 times as many pixel across as my first PC(I personally owned) yet I can't do half as much with those pixels as I could with that PC....

How is 3000 pixels not enough to let me arrange windows myself but 640 was?

Re: Rethinking Window Management

#202
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. Also: Windows 10 brought in some decent tiling/snapping, and windows 11 greatly expanded the tiling options for windows. It’s not i3 or bspwm or anything, but Microsoft does at least seem to understand desire for the window manager to help you nicely place several windows in to nice places.

I think window snapping was introduced in 7 actually. Might have even been vista - I never had the misfortune of using Vista.

Windows has had Tiling functionality since Windows 1.0, but retrofitted onto a stacked manager from Windows 2.0+ (same as Gnome, macOS, etc do). "Side-by-Side" (exclusive tiling mode) was added to Windows Vista, and upgraded to "Aero Snap" in 7. It has been iteratively improved from there.

Re: Rethinking Window Management

#203
post #177
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What made you choose hyprland over sway? The number of people talking about how great it was, while it's much more recent that sway: it was too high to just be by chance. Eyecandy is important, and so is flexibility: check https://github.com/end-4/dots-hyprland and you'll see very different styles made from the same hyprland that I use in "each window is fullscreen" mode. But to stay with a desktop, you've got to i…

Is there any showcase that shows actual work rather than: * changing wallpapers * changing music * changing mouse cursor speed settings (why is that even in quick accessible panels, I've set it once 10 years ago and haven't changed it) ? Coz outside of being pretty it looks like worse traditional manager like xfce... I don't get the appeal.

> why is that even in quick accessible panels

Different people like different things?

FYI, there's no default panel in hyprland: if you want something you've got to configure it. ewww or waybar give you something like a dock or a taskbar, while wofi gives you menus.

For wofi, I have configured the window key to open a textual list of all the apps I have install, so if I press Win it list them all, if I follow by vl it shows VLC as the only remaining entry: I can then start VLC by just hitting enter, which also makes this menu vanish as wofi runs in transparent mode over the top window.

I don't like to do that often: if I find myself using something often, I assign it a number between 0 and 9 to have it as Win+number.

> Is there any showcase that shows actual work

Not any that I have bookmarked, because I'm used to hyprland and I wouldn't have ever thought about watching how other people use it.

But here's an example from the last 30 seconds from my actual workflow where I'm using my own remapped shortcuts (some people may need F1, F2 etc to be actually doing their "function" but I don't, so I've remapped them to jump directly between desktop)

I pressed F1 to go to desk 1 where wezterm is running, to check how some long running operation is going, then F2 to go back to edge to type this: I have different shortcuts for the desktop, like Win+PageUp and Win+PageDn configured to move to the next or previous one, but I seem to prefer one-key shortcuts to go directly to the one I want, so I've remapped Win+F1 to instead "transfer" a window to desk 1, say if I want something tiled next to the terminal.

While I typed this message on HN I remember to do something, so I pressed Win-Grave to open zimwiki in "floating" mode above the edge browser full screen, started taking my note, then I realized I needed to test something in a terminal, so I quickly spawned a foot terminal next to the floating zim with Win+Enter (a shortcut I've setup to get myself a terminal immediately) and used Win+Left to change the splitting ratio to get more room for the terminal, doing Win+Tab to move the focus back and forth between the terminal and zim.

When I was done, I pressed Control-D to close my terminal, and Win-Grave to stash away as I may have to take more notes later.

This is how I use hyprland, like how I was using Windows 11 before, with some custom AutoHotKey scripts to be a keyboard-only workflow.

I mostly use full screen apps and spend 95% of my time between the terminal and the browser, which I each prefer fullscreen on their own desktop

Sometimes I do tiling: when I tile something next to the terminal, I have wezterm running on my desktop 1: so F1 takes me there, where I will start whatever I need with Win + the first letter of the name.

Win+J change the tiling, so if there're only 2 windows tiled vertically, they become tiled horizontally

The rare few times I need a mouse experience, Win+F "floats" the window which is more like what you get from a traditional window manager: I can press on the hotkey + use the mouse to resize or move the window to a specific part of the screen, but I don't think I've done that in the past weeks or even the past months!

Re: Rethinking Window Management

#204
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a longtime macOS user, while I don't mind the rest of how it handles windows/apps I've never liked the fullscreen mode that was added in 10.7, and the GNOME fullscreen mode mentioned in the blog post is identical. I don't maximize windows often As a longtime Windows user who recently moved to Linux, I can't live without fullscreen mode: all my apps are run in fullscreen, not with F12 """fullscreen""", just norma…

I’ve taken a peek at hyprland in the past and it looks great for what it is, but tiling is not my cup of tea, and even if it can be configured to float everything by default its design isn’t floating-first.

I rarely use tiling: I spend most of my time on either a browser or a terminal, so they are each running fullscreen on their own desktop

hyprland mostly gives me the "glue" to map the keyboard shortcuts to switch between the browser and the terminal, to start other programs with wofi.

Re: Rethinking Window Management

#205
post #167
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a longtime macOS user, while I don't mind the rest of how it handles windows/apps I've never liked the fullscreen mode that was added in 10.7, and the GNOME fullscreen mode mentioned in the blog post is identical. I don't maximize windows often As a longtime Windows user who recently moved to Linux, I can't live without fullscreen mode: all my apps are run in fullscreen, not with F12 """fullscreen""", just norma…

I use hyprland too. macOS's full screen mode is like the experience of using hyprland. It is vastly inferior. Yes, it hides window decorations and that is good. But its lacking shortcuts to switch directly to a particular workspace (so it lacks the Win + 1 feature that you are talking about, you can only transition between workspaces with a keyboard in order with ctrl + left or right)

> it lacks the Win + 1 feature that you are talking about, you can only transition between workspaces with a keyboard in order with ctrl + left or right

I hate it when I can't change the shortcut to be what *I* like, so I'm not a big fan of macOS either.

hyprland looks better and that's important, but to me its #1 strength is how you can use it as a solid base to build your workflow, with whatever keyboard or mouse shortcuts or even a mix of them (like Win + mouse dragging is often configured to reposition windows in non-tiling mode)

Re: Rethinking Window Management

#206

Love to see this amount of thought being put into something that nearly everyone encounters on a day to day basis. I greatly miss using tiling window managers, like i3, but I don't miss having to fiddle with all the little temperamental settings to do things as common as set up my wifi. Having something like this as a default would be a great middle ground.

If you use gnome, I can recommend Pop-Shell https://github.com/pop-os/shell

That's what I'm using right now and it's great!

Re: Rethinking Window Management

#207

People generally have pretty good spatial sensibilities, and I feel like modern OS designers seem to forget this. You feel this especially on iPadOS. Physically arranging windows allows for a much more solid multi-tasking experience, and encouraged direct manipulation of content e.g. drag and drop. Transient "palette" or "panel" windows allow for a short term buffer (think a find/replace panel). To me, this is what m…

> Physically arranging windows allows for a much more solid multi-tasking experience,

I think so, too, but I wouldn’t bet on it being true. I think we spent a lot of time rearranging windows, losing productivity, especially on the small screens of the day.

In some cases I think that was worth it in the sense that you could set up your workspace with the tools you needed for the job at hand.

Maybe, the issue is more that modern applications dictate your work setup too much, not allowing you to make them feel your own?

> and encouraged direct manipulation of content e.g. drag and drop.

That’s true, but I think the usefulness of drag and drop is limited, anyways (for example, when did you last drag and drop a picture between windows or a text selection? And aside: do you know iOS supports dragging and dropping text selections?)

> To me, this is what made macOS so great for creative tasks. It activated my spatial memory.

I don’t follow that chain of thought. How does activating your spatial memory make an OS great for creative tasks?

Also how are the current single-window-with-inbuilt-palettes applications worse for “activating your spatial memory”? The palettes still are there, and in more predictable locations.

Re: Rethinking Window Management

#208
“The key point we keep coming back to with this work is that, if we do add a new kind of window management to GNOME, it needs to be good enough to be the default. We don’t want to add yet another manual opt-in tool that doesn’t solve the problems the majority of people face.”

This is the essence of what makes gnome user-hostile: everyone has to fit their mold.

Re: Rethinking Window Management

#209

People generally have pretty good spatial sensibilities, and I feel like modern OS designers seem to forget this. You feel this especially on iPadOS. Physically arranging windows allows for a much more solid multi-tasking experience, and encouraged direct manipulation of content e.g. drag and drop. Transient "palette" or "panel" windows allow for a short term buffer (think a find/replace panel). To me, this is what m…

I got kissed at Apple when they took over soundjam, killed its audio and visual plugin capability and made it into itunes.

Re: Rethinking Window Management

#210
> Manually placing and sizing windows can be fiddly work, and requires close attention and precise motor control

Indeed, the OS support continues to be awful, and unfortunately there isn't much "rethinking" here since even the new design videos show the same bad precision-based approach

- to close a window you have to hunt down a tiny close button in the corner

- to move a window you have to hunt down a tiny bar at the top

(and all that even after we've gained a dedicated Window button on many keyboards)

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