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Home Taping Is Killing Music: When the music industry waged war on the cassette

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Re: Home Taping Is Killing Music: When the music industry waged war on the cassette

#351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I did not, but I was responding to your "The reality is that yes, cassettes really were responsible" which to me reads like a statement of fact and not one of possible cause. The fact remains that the graph you shared does not proof cassettes were responsible for that. It's an inference to the best explanation: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/abduction/ No empirical evidence conclusively proves its true explanat…

> It's an inference to the best explanation: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/abduction/ No empirical evidence conclusively proves its true explanation, but the best available explanation is the most likely correct one. This is gibberish, dude. If we don't know, let's admit we don't know. "the best available explanation is the most likely correct one" is not even close to reality.

> This is gibberish, dude. If we don't know, let's admit we don't know. "the best available explanation is the most likely correct one" is not even close to reality.

By this standard you don't know anything, since you can never rule out (bad) alternative explanations with certainty.

Re: Home Taping Is Killing Music: When the music industry waged war on the cassette

#352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Watch this video, and tell me that there is no objective difference in quality between pre-2000 and post-2000 songs. With a few exceptions, modern music is autotuned-to-death, boring, indistinguishable crap. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uMW2XsMx8Q

I have the same gut feeling that there has been a decline in quality, but I'm not sure that video makes the case. In the previous 10 years (2013-2022) years the songs that clearly fit your description are "Closer" (2016), "Sunflower" (2018), "Stay" (2021). I'd probably say "Old Town Road" (2019) is pretty bad also, with a very boring, repetitive bass track. And "Despacito" (2017) is catchy but has the same cliche bea…

To so many on that list of "bad" and the reasons for it I can't help but think of James Brown and "I feel good" or a song like "Twist and Shout" which have had pretty damn good saying power and few would say are actually bad. A lot of Amy winehouses music too, as well as many "punk" songs.. repetition is not a hallmark of quality nor lack thereof.

Re: Home Taping Is Killing Music: When the music industry waged war on the cassette

#353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My interpretation of that is not they want recent music but they want novel music.

Pretty much. My tastes have changed during adulthood - I've very much expanded tastes. Less rap, less grunge, more jazz and alternative metal. I like folks using traditional instruments in modern music (some metal is good for that) and I like folks mixing genres (electroswing, for instance). I try for more recent music (last 10 years or something), but I'll listen to whatever I find interesting. After all, there is a…

Right there with you. I didn't start listening to hiphop until college. Did a lot of Indie in highschool, that's sorta out now. Electronic music has completely changed for me. I've been loving this new wave of music that'll change genres mid song to just hit the right vibe. It's fun to watch all the stuff that you heard in middle/high school be thrown in a blender and turned into Hyperpop. DnB has been sneaking into all sorts of genres as has chiptune. The availability means things like city pop can shine.

What do I want to listen to today? Japanese garage rock? Phonk? Industrial Hip hop? This was so much harder to do even in the torrenting era. Music has such a low amount of time investment to listen to, why not just try everything if there's no additional cost?

There is one part of me that sorta misses the era when I'd get twenty albums and that was 3 months of music. I'd know them back to front, get excited at the ending notes of one song as I got hyped about the next one. The lack of commitment has made me more like a humming bird flitting from one flower to the next.

Re: Home Taping Is Killing Music: When the music industry waged war on the cassette

#354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's an inference to the best explanation You've not provided that explanation. You're telling us it's the best explanation but you haven't explained it or given any argument for why it's the best -- other than because it's what you've said is the best.

If you have a better explanation, why you don't just provide it to us? That's like saying to a scientist: I don't believe your explanation is the best we have, but won't provide a better one myself. Very easy.

That’s not how it works though, a scientist needs supporting evidence for their explanation before the null hypothesis can be ruled out. You seem to have your mind set on an explanation while other people aren’t seeing the evidence you’re seeing to support it.

Re: Home Taping Is Killing Music: When the music industry waged war on the cassette

#355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh, I had to goog this... but this doesnt map. So explain thyself ;; " this involve a significant revision of fundamental Marxist theories and premises, and usually involve making an alliance with the bourgeois class " - uh... explain me... to me?

Your understanding of the music industry of the 60s and 70s is at the 'not even wrong' level. Let's start with this to set the context: > But we dont have revolutionary music such as led zepplin, pink floyd, etc in the current crop. And then when it comes to Led Zeppelin and this: > none of the above sought facade public images as much as every single 'influencing' pop-stars today. I'm not sure what 'facade' is doing…

im open to hearing ypour thoughts

Re: Home Taping Is Killing Music: When the music industry waged war on the cassette

#356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lewis Capaldi, Adele, Meghan Trainor, Jay Z, Drake. I don’t believe any of them made it because of their looks. On the other hand, the Beatles, The Stones, The Monkees, Stevie Nicks, Olivia Newton John - their looks were very much part of their appeal. Same as it ever was. Face it - you’re old.

"Exceptions that prove the rule" You've heard the phrase before right? Why could you pick those names so readily? Because they're the exceptions...

That seems rather “One True Scotsman” logic.

“Where are the Elton Johns of today?”

“Here and here and here”

“Ah yes, but those are exceptions that prove the rule”

By that easy logic, I can say Elton John was also an exception.

Re: Home Taping Is Killing Music: When the music industry waged war on the cassette

#357
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You don't mention any of these possible causes though. I did not, but I was responding to your "The reality is that yes, cassettes really were responsible" which to me reads like a statement of fact and not one of possible cause. The fact remains that the graph you shared does not proof cassettes were responsible for that. Another possibility is that music revenue around that 1976 peak shown in your graph is due to…

> I did not, but I was responding to your "The reality is that yes, cassettes really were responsible" which to me reads like a statement of fact and not one of possible cause. The fact remains that the graph you shared does not proof cassettes were responsible for that. It's an inference to the best explanation: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/abduction/ No empirical evidence conclusively proves its true explanat…

>> It's an inference to the best explanation: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/abduction/ No empirical evidence conclusively proves its true explanation, but the best available explanation is the most likely correct one.

I don’t think that link implies what you think it does.

It discusses abduction as a way to justify a hypothesis, you still need to test it. I’m not arguing your hypothesis is wrong, I’m just arguing I think you’re wrong in treating it as a fact (“the reality is yes …”). You could have said “the reality is cassettes could have … “ and that would be true.

Re: Home Taping Is Killing Music: When the music industry waged war on the cassette

#358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Exceptions that prove the rule" You've heard the phrase before right? Why could you pick those names so readily? Because they're the exceptions...

That seems rather “One True Scotsman” logic. “Where are the Elton Johns of today?” “Here and here and here” “Ah yes, but those are exceptions that prove the rule” By that easy logic, I can say Elton John was also an exception.

... you think he wasn't?

Re: Home Taping Is Killing Music: When the music industry waged war on the cassette

#359
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The number of consumers that pirated music increased mostly because the record companies missed the boat in the third round of being able to sell us the same music. They quite literally sat on their hands for years while there was huge demand for online music. iTunes finally served that demand and Apple made a bundle of money on that. That's not true. iTunes or Spotify did not nearly compensate for lost CD revenue.…

There is no 'right to revenue', iTunes or Spotify did not compensate because they are different media with different usage patterns and a different audience. It would be far more surprising if they did compensate it. You are making the same mistake that software companies mad(k)e when talking about revenue and losses due to piracy: not every copy made is a lost sale and depending on the price points and other busines…

> There is no 'right to revenue'

There absolutely is. If someone produces a thing through their own hard work, they own the rights to that thing, and you do not have the right to consume that thing without paying them for it. You do not own the rights to other peoples' work.

If you disagree, then prove it by going to your boss/company and telling them that they don't have to pay you unless they want to (and that you're not going to engage in any enforcement or legal action against them, because you don't think that it's wrong).

> Record companies are very much like start-up accelerators

Record companies are completely irrelevant to the issue of piracy.

Re: Home Taping Is Killing Music: When the music industry waged war on the cassette

#360
post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the quality has absolutely cratered You just got old. It happens to everyone, and every generation says the same thing: The music I enjoyed when I was young and impressionable was great, but all the stuff they make nowadays is crap. People were whining about how Beatles destroyed music, how rock’n’roll was just monkey noise, how crooners like Sinatra wasn’t real singing.

Plus, The Winnowing: We don't listen to most music from decades ago. We don't listen to most hits from decades ago. The Winnowing removes most works, in every medium, from the popular consciousness, leaving only the consensus favorites, also known as the canon. Here's an example: "The Ballad Of The Green Berets" by SSG Barry Sadler was number one for five weeks in 1966, tied with "California Dreamin'" by The Mamas An…

I agree with you in part, but feel there's something to the criticism as well. You can look at the top hits --- number ones, top 10s, Billboard top 40, etc., going back through time. And whilst the most popular song of any given year or decade often is reasonably banal, it often isn't, and as you go back through the list, there are dark-horse pieces which do appear.

Another factor is that far more music is published or streamed now, which makes sorting through the mix much more challenging.

Popular taste and memory are both fickle, and one thing that makes going through back-catalogues and earlier periods so interesting is that the sounds of forgotten hits are often fresh to modern ears, while at the same time being tinged with nostalgia based on style, composition, performance characteristics, etc.

If you look at popular hits going back about 150--200 years (say to the 1820s -- 1870s onward), one characteristic that becomes overwhelmingly apparent is the role of technology in popular music. Earlier pieces are often meant to be played or sung by the masses themselves, and tend to instrumentation that would have been available (fiddle, flute, piano). The first recorded formats were player-piano pieces distributed on rolls (and with a distinctly mechanical sound). By the early 20th century, amplification starts to emerge, allowing smaller acts, then electrification (the 3--4 piece rock group emerges), synthesizers (1- and 2-person acts), rap DJs, and over the past decade or so the ability for either a single person to play multiple tracks or for artists in remote locations to be able to collaborate on a single piece.

This may give rise to either original pieces, or simply amazing covers of classics. Leonid & Friends cover of Chicago's "25 or 6 to 4", for example, seems to me better than and at the same time more faithful to the original. It is technically fantastic, while at the same time having its own honest spirit and vivaciousness:

https://yewtu.be/watch?v=9_torOTK5qc>

Other notable covers:

- Pomplamoose, e.g., "In the Air Tonight": https://pipe.kavin.rocks/watch?v=9_torOTK5qc>

- Disturbed's "Sounds of Silence": https://piped.kavin.rocks/watch?v=u9Dg-g7t2l4>

I still think that songs such as "Gangnam Style" and "Someone That I Used to Know" are both truly good recent (post-2000, for me) songs. Both in originals and covers such as Walk Off the Earth's: https://piped.kavin.rocks/watch?v=p4hIzgqA9io>. (Not to mention the parodies of the original and cover versions...).

That said ...

... I listen to very little contemporary music, largely preferring classical and jazz / blues / folk traditions. Terrestrial broadcast radio is all but completely dead to me. And I don't use streaming services, so that's not really there either.

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