Home Taping Is Killing Music: When the music industry waged war on the cassette • Hacker News Board

Re: Home Taping Is Killing Music: When the music industry waged war on the cassette

#321

Post by samstave » Wed, Jul 26, 2023, 9:53 PM UTC

bigbillheck wrote: post #244

samstave wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but one cant deny the music of the late 60s and 70s changed a lot of human culture. But we dont have revolutionary music such as led zepplin, pink floyd, etc in the current crop. none of the above sought facade public images as much as every single 'influencing' pop-stars today. Their influence was organic. Today's music trends are forced. Aside from some EDM style folks, such as ZHU - great music but hes not o…

> Their influence was organic. Today's music trends are forced. This is 100% purestrain revisionism.

Uh, I had to goog this...

but this doesnt map. So explain thyself ;;

" this involve a significant revision of fundamental Marxist theories and premises, and usually involve making an alliance with the bourgeois class "

-

uh... explain me... to me?

Re: Home Taping Is Killing Music: When the music industry waged war on the cassette

#322

Post by MichaelZuo » Wed, Jul 26, 2023, 9:54 PM UTC

barbariangrunge wrote: post #311

Jeslijar wrote: post #273

Is this really a problem? Revenue based on selling copies of a recording is down. The cost of reproducing copies is less than ever. The barrier to creating your own music and distributing it to everyone in the world is less than ever. All the middlemen cranking out wasteful copies of just one thing are not necessary since music is trivially reproduced with digital copies. How much should music make as an industry? Wh…

Artists need to buy groceries and retire some day--almost none of them successfully pull this off, it's like one in a million--but every day there's a dozen posts on here about how greedy the arts industries are for trying to charge money for things. Well, no problem, in the near future you can just get a personal AI to make everything for you. The Arts will be wiped out completely. Time to celebrate? No human artist…

One in a million still implies over 8000 successful artists at any given time.

Assuming an average tenure of 20 years in the limelight, that's 32000 over the course of a 80 year lifespan, which is probably more than anyone will bother to listen to in a lifetime.

Not to mention the tens of thousands of historic and famous artists.

When put in that perspective it actually makes total sense why no one will bother paying to listen to the 50 000th most popular artist, the chances of any given person being more interested in the other 49 999 at any given time is approaching 100%.

Re: Home Taping Is Killing Music: When the music industry waged war on the cassette

#323

Post by jjulius » Wed, Jul 26, 2023, 9:55 PM UTC

mschuster91 wrote: post #174

bazoom42 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the quality has absolutely cratered You just got old. It happens to everyone, and every generation says the same thing: The music I enjoyed when I was young and impressionable was great, but all the stuff they make nowadays is crap. People were whining about how Beatles destroyed music, how rock’n’roll was just monkey noise, how crooners like Sinatra wasn’t real singing.

> You just got old. It happens to everyone, and every generation says the same thing: The music I enjoyed when I was young and impressionable was great, but all the stuff they make nowadays is crap. Thing is, there are objective metrics about quality. One aspect is "loudness war" aka compression, where subjective loudness gets increased at the cost of dynamic range [1], another (in)famous aspect is the increasing use…

>Thing is, there are objective metrics about quality. One aspect is "loudness war" aka compression...

Eeeeehhhhh. I've heard plenty of beautifully-mastered tracks that were otherwise just crap pieces of music, just as I've heard plenty of music that was so good I was willing to overlook the fact that it might be taking part in the loudness war.

Re: Home Taping Is Killing Music: When the music industry waged war on the cassette

#324

Post by benreesman » Wed, Jul 26, 2023, 9:55 PM UTC

bazoom42 wrote: post #131

jacquesm wrote: post #7

"Home taping is killing music" The record companies did a fantastic job of killing music all by themselves, the quality has absolutely cratered and the occasional great artist that has made it through the long slog to recognition has done so despite the music industry, not because of. I spent a fortune on various formats and when streaming came along I simply refused to participate. I'm simply not going to pay a thir…

> the quality has absolutely cratered You just got old. It happens to everyone, and every generation says the same thing: The music I enjoyed when I was young and impressionable was great, but all the stuff they make nowadays is crap. People were whining about how Beatles destroyed music, how rock’n’roll was just monkey noise, how crooners like Sinatra wasn’t real singing.

I’m knocking on 40 and the absolute best shit is on SoundCloud done by some teenager or 20-something on like a pirated copy of Ableton in a basement. There are like 2 things you can do as the technology goes to infinity: make way more diverse awesome stuff, or just make the music one tiny part of the well-oiled Taylor Swift Corporation.

There’s more amazing music being made than ever, and the stuff with big money behind it is worse than ever.

Re: Home Taping Is Killing Music: When the music industry waged war on the cassette

#325

Post by jjulius » Wed, Jul 26, 2023, 10:00 PM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #255

mschuster91 wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You just got old. It happens to everyone, and every generation says the same thing: The music I enjoyed when I was young and impressionable was great, but all the stuff they make nowadays is crap. Thing is, there are objective metrics about quality. One aspect is "loudness war" aka compression, where subjective loudness gets increased at the cost of dynamic range [1], another (in)famous aspect is the increasing use…

It's hard to find a popular recording these days that hasn't had the vocal electronically altered. Autotune is just one of the effects applied.

>... popular recording...

At the risk of being reductive, dig a little bit deeper, beyond popular music, and you'll find large swathes of fantastic music where this isn't the case.

Re: Home Taping Is Killing Music: When the music industry waged war on the cassette

#326

Post by yowlingcat » Wed, Jul 26, 2023, 10:02 PM UTC

barbariangrunge wrote: post #311

Jeslijar wrote: post #273

Is this really a problem? Revenue based on selling copies of a recording is down. The cost of reproducing copies is less than ever. The barrier to creating your own music and distributing it to everyone in the world is less than ever. All the middlemen cranking out wasteful copies of just one thing are not necessary since music is trivially reproduced with digital copies. How much should music make as an industry? Wh…

Artists need to buy groceries and retire some day--almost none of them successfully pull this off, it's like one in a million--but every day there's a dozen posts on here about how greedy the arts industries are for trying to charge money for things. Well, no problem, in the near future you can just get a personal AI to make everything for you. The Arts will be wiped out completely. Time to celebrate? No human artist…

I don't like the posts castigating artists for trying to charge for things, but I do think that the financial woes from artists don't come from their pricing model or unfairness from middlemen distributors. Rather, I think they come from simple supply and demand economic imbalances.

Because of how many more people want to be professional artists than have the capability to competitively operate at a professional level (inclusive of both raw artistic and second order marketing talent), there will never be enough demand to support anything but the very best of the artists who would like to make a living off of their product.

But I also think that conflicts with the idea you just mentioned, that of being able to get a personal AI to make everything for you. AI has shown the ability to make a mediocre product that one can tolerate, but not a great product for personal consumption that would lead you to become a loyal fan.

If anything, I think AI will take the grunt work out of all the tasks a great work an artist has to do, and let them focus on the parts that cannot be outsourced -- coming up with and distributing a great, differentiated product.

Re: Home Taping Is Killing Music: When the music industry waged war on the cassette

#327

Post by indymike » Wed, Jul 26, 2023, 10:02 PM UTC

barbariangrunge wrote: post #311

Jeslijar wrote: post #273

Is this really a problem? Revenue based on selling copies of a recording is down. The cost of reproducing copies is less than ever. The barrier to creating your own music and distributing it to everyone in the world is less than ever. All the middlemen cranking out wasteful copies of just one thing are not necessary since music is trivially reproduced with digital copies. How much should music make as an industry? Wh…

Artists need to buy groceries and retire some day--almost none of them successfully pull this off, it's like one in a million--but every day there's a dozen posts on here about how greedy the arts industries are for trying to charge money for things. Well, no problem, in the near future you can just get a personal AI to make everything for you. The Arts will be wiped out completely. Time to celebrate? No human artist…

> Artists need to buy groceries and retire some day--almost none of them successfully pull this off, it's like one in a million--but every day there's a dozen posts on here about how greedy the arts industries are for trying to charge money for things.

I know a lot of artists, musicians, actors and even a painter or two who actually make a living from what they love. You know what none of them do? Make their living from people buying recordings or reproductions of their work. They all make money by playing gigs, performing and doing commissions. Some of them do really well, too.

Oh, and AI is not going to replace the band on the patio, or the actress in a local production of "Crazy for You" any time soon.

Re: Home Taping Is Killing Music: When the music industry waged war on the cassette

#328

Post by DropInIn » Wed, Jul 26, 2023, 10:03 PM UTC

lenzm wrote: post #189

mschuster91 wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You just got old. It happens to everyone, and every generation says the same thing: The music I enjoyed when I was young and impressionable was great, but all the stuff they make nowadays is crap. Thing is, there are objective metrics about quality. One aspect is "loudness war" aka compression, where subjective loudness gets increased at the cost of dynamic range [1], another (in)famous aspect is the increasing use…

I don't like the results of the loudness war either but it isn't objectively worse. Lots of people are listening to music on cheap speakers over the sound of road noise while driving or with generic earbuds on a train or any number of situations not conducive to high dynamic ranges. To these people in these situations, the highly compressed music sounds better.

Imo musicians need to make it a norm to release two 'correct' verions:

The highly compressed versions for radio play/commoners

And

A 'hi-fi' version for audiophiles

They need to be the same except for levels etc, and neither more official than the other

If your song can't be enjoyed in both ways, then either your music is 'specialty' music catering to audiophiles and musicophiles (?) Or it's just garbage and shouldn't be released regardless.

But that opinion may be a major cause for myself never releasing anything....

Re: Home Taping Is Killing Music: When the music industry waged war on the cassette

#329

Post by crucialfelix » Wed, Jul 26, 2023, 10:05 PM UTC

Ralfp wrote: post #317

Home taping is killing record industry profits! We left this side blank so you can help B-side on Dead Kennedys „ In God We Trust, Inc”

Home f**ing is killing prostitution

Graffiti in a band practice space, written by a friend of mine

Re: Home Taping Is Killing Music: When the music industry waged war on the cassette

#330

Post by carlosjobim » Wed, Jul 26, 2023, 10:17 PM UTC

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #306

thrtythreeforty wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that you already pay for an Internet connection, it's $0 marginal cost.

I'll be (justifiably) downvoted for this, but he may be a millennial that "doesn't have internet at home". Which, if it were true, is to my way of thinking like telling me that you don't have indoor plumbing.

I have internet at home, but saying it costs $0 is stretching it, since you have to have a decent upload speed on the connection you're paying for. Not to speak of the server, in this day and age when most people only have a laptop.