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Former intel officer says 'non-human biologics’ found at alleged UFO crash sites

bbc.co.uk

271–280 of 673 posts

Re: Former intel officer says 'non-human biologics’ found at alleged UFO crash sites

#271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What was your rank? How many SAPs were you read into? Having Top Secret SCI clearance does not give you immediate access to every SAP you request to be read into. Most people are not read into more that a dozen SAPs. I’ll also point out that if Grusch was an unexceptional IC officer, the pentagon would easily be able to discredit him as such. To date, the pentagon has not attempted to say anything about Grusch’s cred…

I answered all this elsewhere My record is public so you can verify by yourself

I’m not looking up some random online comment’s credentials to try to prove their own point. Your comment doesn’t stand on its own and if you’re not willing to clarify your credentials further then your argument is moot.

Re: Former intel officer says 'non-human biologics’ found at alleged UFO crash sites

#272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does someone being a credentialed US intelligence official make their public statements more or less trustworthy than the average person?

Neither in my experience - hence you should take my position with salt and do your own research

How many times have you or any other intelligence official you know lied under oath to the ICIG or congress?

Re: Former intel officer says 'non-human biologics’ found at alleged UFO crash sites

#273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They said nothing about a pilot. He said they found "biologics". Doesn't mean it was a pilot.

It was a machine pilot keeping a pet plant in its ship. Only half kidding, if we meet aliens they will be machines at least to some extent. Biological life has a lot of annoying limitations and continuously circumventing them is more expensive than just becoming machines. It’s way more likely to encounter von Neumann probes than some beer drinking alien traveling across the galaxy in compression socks and with a neck…

I wouldn't be so sure. They could have a much more advanced idea of what life is, and life could have deep meaning to them, they might seek to keep their biological selves in tact and use machines only as tools. I know that's how I would roll, and I'd raise my kids that way, a group of beings like that could spawn a nation down the road with a rule like that. Or with their understanding of life and computation and intelligence and the universe, it could just be self evident to them: your form follows your function, if you change your form you change your function and you're no longer you. Sending robots, sure, becoming robots, I think you're bound to meet at least as many that don't as that do.

Re: Former intel officer says 'non-human biologics’ found at alleged UFO crash sites

#274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing stopping the civilians from reporting it publicly AFAIK. There's enough cameras in the sky that we'd have footage of a few. Especially from all the commercial fights with passengers.

Part of the issue is the stigma. Commercial pilots are afraid to come forward, and that’s why Ryan Graves came to this meeting because his mission is to reduce the stigma so pilots feel safe reporting this issue.

I'd agree on some pilots, and sure they should post more unexplained things for analysis. But given how many people are eagerly into bigfoot or cryptids, it's not like every pilot with some kind of evidence would feel unsafe sharing it.

Re: Former intel officer says 'non-human biologics’ found at alleged UFO crash sites

#275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That proves nothing though. US Government data is so siloed it’s possible Snowden would not have access to UFO info even if he had access to essentially everything the NSA had access to.

Yup. Not military, but have significantly researched the U.S. secret keeping system because I’ve long been enthralled by espionage. As I understand it, any classified document can be SCI, secure compartmentalize information(I think this is used for spy stuff, barely anyone needs to be able to link a spy’s real ID to their assumed ID, the less people who know the better), or be part of an SAP, Special Access Program(w…

It's almost unbelievable how little anyone knows of this and I can't entirely figure out why. Some small details of the system itself are classified, but not the broad strokes. The Intelligence Community (IC), i.e. the CIA, NSA, NGA, NRO all use the SCI system to compartmentalize top-secret data. Additionally, data can get distribution restrictions, usually FVEY or NOFORN, indicating they can be released to five eyes or to no foreigners at all, regardless of clearance. The compartments can get iffy, but the biggest ones are TK for satellite imagery data and SI for signals intelligence data.

After 9/11, for the most part, this data was shared as widely as possible. The IC networks are all able to connect to each other over JWICS, which is the military's top-secret network. Data only classified at the Secret level is shared over SIPRNet, the military's secret network. When you get an account on any agency network, you are issued an IC PKI identity, which includes a client certificate. Every time you attempt to access any system or even just a static site, your client cert is used to grab your clearance attributes from your agency's online database (as in, basic ABAC, something you almost never see on the regular Internet). Access to view is granted based on these attributes that give your clearance level and compartments. Sites have to be deployed in such a manner that they can be redacted element-by-element rather than denying an entire site.

The DoD, on the other hand, uses the SAP system to compartmentalize data. Any data generated by an SAP program is accessible only to members of that program (and to the president, who implicitly has clearance to see literally everything).

Other than the president, you're right that nobody can just pull rank to get clearance. SAP access is granted by the program office of each specific program. SCI compartments are granted by your agency. The clearance itself is granted by a government-wide cross-agency adjudication board based on recommendations from counterintel agents who receive data gathered from the OPM, by investigators who are typically contractors.

Why do I know all this? Because I was a cleared system administrator of a top-secret software environment. This was a IAM user with Administrator policy assigned in AWS, in this case C2S, the CIA's top-secret private version of AWS that is shared and used by the entire IC. It's the same as having Administrator access to an AWS commercial account. It doesn't grant you administrator rights to the entire Internet, just to the resources in your cloud account. Individual applications even still may or may not give you administrator access as well, depending on whether you need it, which has nothing to do with your clearance level. This is regular infosec "does this person actually need to be an admin" considerations. And it includes separation of duties. Typically, admins in one system can't be admins of another unless there is no one else who can do it.

Edward Snowden absolutely did not have access to anywhere near just about everything classified. Nobody has that access. Even the president can't just login into a terminal and grab anything. He can ask and his aides will find someone who can do that, but there is no such terminal that is physically capable of accessing everything, no matter who is logged into it.

Re: Former intel officer says 'non-human biologics’ found at alleged UFO crash sites

#276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the issue is the stigma. Commercial pilots are afraid to come forward, and that’s why Ryan Graves came to this meeting because his mission is to reduce the stigma so pilots feel safe reporting this issue.

I'd agree on some pilots, and sure they should post more unexplained things for analysis. But given how many people are eagerly into bigfoot or cryptids, it's not like every pilot with some kind of evidence would feel unsafe sharing it.

Pilots, both commercial and military, are constantly under scrutiny to maintain a healthy mental state for fear of their license being revoked. You can not be mentally unstable and be a pilot. For years it was generally well accepted that people who believed in UFOs are crazy, so pilots have kept this to themselves for fear of retribution. Go ask any pilot how they would feel reporting something moving in unexplainable ways right up against their aircraft.

Re: Former intel officer says 'non-human biologics’ found at alleged UFO crash sites

#277

The best part about this “whistleblower”? He’s entire testimony is hearsay. > “I was informed, in the course of my official duties, of a multi-decade UAP crash retrieval and reverse-engineering program, to which I was denied access,” He has no first hand evidence. Basically somebody pranked him by telling him they had access to super secret programs that he would not be allowed to ever see and now he thinks the govt…

I agree. It sounds like an army private testifying before congress about hidden stocks of blinker fluid. Whoever originally played the prank on him must be rolling on the floor during this testimony.

Re: Former intel officer says 'non-human biologics’ found at alleged UFO crash sites

#278
post #216

One thing I find amazing is the diversity of UAP vehicles. It used to be saucers, then silvery orbs, tic tac pills, triangles with bright lights , and now during the hearing we learn about dark cubes in translucent spheres! I mean... how many different alien races exactly are playing tourists over here?

it feels like the most unlikely number of ET races monitoring earth would be 1. If it's possibly _at all_ that there is intelligent life elsewhere and it has the capacity to reach across the galaxy / universe and monitor us, surely there'd be multitudes of them given the scale of the universe. so it's not that weird to observe this kind of diversity.

(not making a claim on the veracity of the reports)

Re: Former intel officer says 'non-human biologics’ found at alleged UFO crash sites

#279

The general response in this discussion is skeptical, and I can understand the hesitation to broach the UFO/UAP topic, particularly when the topic has been vilified for literally decades. However, we are now in a legitimately different era of discussion of these topics, and you have to be willing to open your mind to the idea that these efforts are legitimate. The bipartisanship at the hearing is to be commended, and…

There is no physical evidence whatsoever. The only “evidence” is hearsay. Also, the members of the committee can lie without repercussions, so I don’t believe them. And the military lies to the public all the time. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

>There is no physical evidence whatsoever.

You do know that you literally can't make that claim in good faith, right? That is simply your belief and, in fact, is contrary to the testimony of all three witnesses, all of which were personally invited to speak before Congress because of what they know. Clearly, you were not invited, though I suppose that itself is a belief.

All three witnesses claim that advanced military sensor platforms have gathered extensive information on UAP. Is that a piece of a craft? No. However, one of the witnesses testified under oath that he had direct knowledge of where such materials exist. You should want to see where his claims lead, if you truly believe in your closing statement.

>The only “evidence” is hearsay.

If that's your position, you didn't watch the hearing. One of the three witnesses is only there because he experienced a UAP while serving as a flight commander, and his former aviators reluctantly persuaded him to come forward. That individual is a primary source.

>Also, the members of the committee can lie without repercussions, so I don’t believe them. And the military lies to the public all the time.

Ah, so you're a conspiracy theorist. /s

>Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Any person can dismiss extraordinary evidence as illegitimate if they reject the underlying premise. You can have video evidence of a person clearly committing murder, but that doesn't mean a family member won't still claim it's not them or it's fabricated. A piece of material from a craft could be brought out in a hearing, and some people will still claim that it's fake or impossible to prove that it wasn't made on Earth in a government lab. An alien could testify before Congress, and some people will claim it's an elaborate fake using rubber masks and advanced robotics.

In this case, we do have historically-extraordinary evidence (submitted as sworn Congressional testimony and personal statements) of the existence of UAP. You just don't accept one or more of the following underlying premises:

- Physics as is commonly accepted is incomplete.

- Military pilots are better observers than the average person.

- Life of equal or greater intelligence exists beyond humanity.

Re: Former intel officer says 'non-human biologics’ found at alleged UFO crash sites

#280
post #277

The best part about this “whistleblower”? He’s entire testimony is hearsay. > “I was informed, in the course of my official duties, of a multi-decade UAP crash retrieval and reverse-engineering program, to which I was denied access,” He has no first hand evidence. Basically somebody pranked him by telling him they had access to super secret programs that he would not be allowed to ever see and now he thinks the govt…

I agree. It sounds like an army private testifying before congress about hidden stocks of blinker fluid. Whoever originally played the prank on him must be rolling on the floor during this testimony.

He has provided classified photographs, videos, other records, _and his sources_ to both intelligence committees and the ICIG. I believe some of his sources have been directly questioned by those entities as well. And they have pressed forward with this hearing and the UAP Disclosure amendment in the Senate. That suggests this is not about blinker fluid.
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