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Boeing has now lost $1.1B on Starliner, with no crew flight in sight

arstechnica.com

121–130 of 228 posts

Re: Boeing has now lost $1.1B on Starliner, with no crew flight in sight

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So money claw back and hand it to SpaceX?

Probably blue origin. NASA wants more than one supplier, for as much as possible.

At this point it is probably going to be a human rated Dream chaser. they were the 1st looser in the original commercial crew contract. They seem to be on track for a test launch later this year for Commercial Resupply.

Re: Boeing has now lost $1.1B on Starliner, with no crew flight in sight

#122
post #8

This comment is your regularly scheduled reminder that they were supposed to be the safe option. The people who'd come in clutch when SpaceX failed (and it was assumed in certain quarters that SpaceX would fail to deliver on time). They were paid 2x more than what NASA paid SpaceX. https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/09/nasa-will-pay-boeing... RIP Boeing.

Boeing has offices in nearly every congressional district, and has been openly bribing congress for decades. They will never fail, experience hardship, or suffer consequences for anything so long as the current republic stands.

You don't need to tear down the Republic, but you do need to elect representatives that can somehow stand against the relentless current of lobbyists jockeying for appropriations.

Re: Boeing has now lost $1.1B on Starliner, with no crew flight in sight

#123
post #50
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I mean, a few month delay on a brand new space vehicle isn't "OMG, Boeing failed!" The hubub is not about the few more months of delay just anounced. The starliner and the dragon 2 started development around the same time to deliver about the same thing. The first crewed dragon 2 launched in 16 November 2020. It is not about the months of delay, but the years.

Those were largely delays in funding (4+ years) not just the actual program. “In July 2010, Boeing stated that the capsule could be operational as early as 2015 with sufficient near-term approvals and funding.” “On September 16, 2014, NASA chose Boeing (Starliner) and SpaceX (Crew Dragon) as the two companies to be funded to develop systems to transport U.S. government crews to and from the International Space Statio…

Yes, the Commercial Crew funding was spread out over more years than NASA wanted due to insufficient budget from Congress, which delayed both SpaceX and Boeing. But Boeing has had 3 more years of delays on top of that due to bad engineering.

Re: Boeing has now lost $1.1B on Starliner, with no crew flight in sight

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Boeing has offices in nearly every congressional district, and has been openly bribing congress for decades. They will never fail, experience hardship, or suffer consequences for anything so long as the current republic stands.

All of the big defense contractors do this, it’s kind of astounding. Lockheed, Raytheon, etc. their offices are spread out over the country to give enough coverage in congressional districts where no one will be willing to kill funding for a project at the risk of their local plant closing.

Also the contracts the big companies have with vendors across the country. They still purchase a large portion of their parts and talking to congress members about the jobs a program creates in their district is a strong data point.

Re: Boeing has now lost $1.1B on Starliner, with no crew flight in sight

#125
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be clear to readers, the were only paid for their achieved milestones, which is nowhere near the full contracted amount since they haven't flown anyone. As for the 2x part... it's cause their bid was 2x what SpaceX bid itself. And both got their bids accepted.

> As for the 2x part... it's cause their bid was 2x what SpaceX bid itself. And both got their bids accepted. Mostly. NASA did just give Boeing extra money for some pretty dubious reasons. > NASA instead requested Boeing “propose prices for additional flexibilities to fill an anticipated crew access gap, including shortening its lead times for rocket and spacecraft production,” the report states. After what OIG descr…

Yes, and NASA awarded SpaceX $278m in 2006 dollars from the COTS program when SpaceX had never even flown a rocket.

Re: Boeing has now lost $1.1B on Starliner, with no crew flight in sight

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They still can use cutting off the ISS as a bargaining chip since half the station is Russian and handles orbit raising. They actually did do that a lot early into the war, until Rogozin was replaced as head of Roscosmos by someone who took a slightly less bombastic approach of saying that Russia would quit the ISS once they have a successor station up later this decade. What gets in the way is that the US has severa…

NASA replacement stations are totally underfunded by congress, non are close. Don't expect a solution from that anyime soon.

If Starship delivers even half of what they're promising, we'll have a bunch of commercial space stations up even without NASA support.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_commercial_space_stati...

Re: Boeing has now lost $1.1B on Starliner, with no crew flight in sight

#127

[flagged]

Elon also said the Falcon 9 would work, said it would be re-usable, said the Falcon 9 heavy would work, said the Model S would be good, said the Model 3 would be great, said the Model Y would be the most popular car in the world, etc. etc.

Obviously he's not hitting 100%, but you can't deny his companies are achieving immensely more than anyone ever thought possible.

If I could take Elon's ratio of "I said it would work vs. it's real and it does", I would, and so would any sane person.

Re: Boeing has now lost $1.1B on Starliner, with no crew flight in sight

#128
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

“I’m just trolling.” Don’t do that here.

It's a silly comment leading into a more serious question. Everyone focuses on the least important part of the comment, and then feels self righteous

Re: Boeing has now lost $1.1B on Starliner, with no crew flight in sight

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this article just reeks of subjective opinion, more so than objective neutrality The comments section of any Ars Starliner article is a must-read for me. These guys were devout Boeing haters and would endlessly praise SpaceX - that is, until Elon become public enemy #1 last year and they suddenly and abruptly shifted their hate and derision the other way. Not a single independent thought on that entire forum, unles…

The haters don't want to admit space flight is really really hard and Elon, excuse my language, fucking nailed it. Richard Branson is a billionaire who tried to do spaceflight long before Elon and Virgin Galactic hasn't launched anything useful (before SpaceX) as far as I know. If someone thinks a suborbital flight is impressive I highly recommend them to play KSP and find out how easy that is compared to getting int…

It's quite sad to see the public perception of spaceflight getting ruined by making sure that everybody's first association upon hearing the name of the most awesome rocket company is "Spacetwitter".

Re: Boeing has now lost $1.1B on Starliner, with no crew flight in sight

#130
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SpaceX is the only organization in the industry that prioritizes speed. For the regulators and the other players, they are all pretty happy to do things at their own pace and speed.

But the regulators have certified SpaceX's Crew Dragon.

Sure. But they are waiting on contracts to do anything.
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