Lost, or invested? One imagines if they outright lost it and saw no opportunity to recoup (i.e. no longer an investment) they'd just end the program.
they would have cancelled a long time ago if they could
Boeing has now lost $1.1B on Starliner, with no crew flight in sight
11–20 of 228 posts
Re: Boeing has now lost $1.1B on Starliner, with no crew flight in sight
#12Earlier quoted context omitted.
The contract doesn't permit Boeing to cancel. NASA can.
How does that work? Does Boeing pay a penalty if they don’t make progress?
US law allows companies to split off a subsidiary with all the liabilities and the main company to continue to function with all the assets just like before https://www.ltltalccommittee.org/
Boeing wouldn't need to pay anything.
Re: Boeing has now lost $1.1B on Starliner, with no crew flight in sight
#13This comment is your regularly scheduled reminder that they were supposed to be the safe option. The people who'd come in clutch when SpaceX failed (and it was assumed in certain quarters that SpaceX would fail to deliver on time). They were paid 2x more than what NASA paid SpaceX. https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/09/nasa-will-pay-boeing... RIP Boeing.
I'm sure they'll discuss that at the meeting they'll schedule in the next meeting scheduling meeting.
Re: Boeing has now lost $1.1B on Starliner, with no crew flight in sight
#14Earlier quoted context omitted.
How does that work? Does Boeing pay a penalty if they don’t make progress?
US law allows companies to split off a subsidiary with all the liabilities and the main company to continue to function with all the assets just like before https://www.ltltalccommittee.org/ Boeing wouldn't need to pay anything.
They would never get another space contract again if they did that, but they can see this will be a larger market in 30 years, so they'll lick their wounds and continue on commercial space projects.
Re: Boeing has now lost $1.1B on Starliner, with no crew flight in sight
#15This comment is your regularly scheduled reminder that they were supposed to be the safe option. The people who'd come in clutch when SpaceX failed (and it was assumed in certain quarters that SpaceX would fail to deliver on time). They were paid 2x more than what NASA paid SpaceX. https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/09/nasa-will-pay-boeing... RIP Boeing.
To be clear to readers, the were only paid for their achieved milestones, which is nowhere near the full contracted amount since they haven't flown anyone. As for the 2x part... it's cause their bid was 2x what SpaceX bid itself. And both got their bids accepted.
> As for the 2x part... it's cause their bid was 2x what SpaceX bid itself. And both got their bids accepted.
Mostly.
NASA did just give Boeing extra money for some pretty dubious reasons.
> NASA instead requested Boeing “propose prices for additional flexibilities to fill an anticipated crew access gap, including shortening its lead times for rocket and spacecraft production,” the report states. After what OIG described as “prolonged negotiations,” NASA agreed to pay Boeing an additional $287.2 million for those mission flexibilities.
> The OIG report concluded that much of those payments were not necessary, since there were other methods to provide schedule flexibility to mitigate gaps in crew access to the station. The report specifically notes that, five days after NASA agreed to the additional payment to Boeing, the company submitted a proposal to NASA offering to sell five Soyuz seats it has acquired from Russian company RSC Energia for $373.5 million.
> The report concluded NASA’s payment of $144 million to accelerate the timetable for two of the four Starliner missions was unreasonable, and that it overspent by $43 million when it granted Boeing authorization to proceed on one Starliner mission a year earlier than necessary.
> OIG also criticized NASA for not giving SpaceX, the other company with a commercial crew contract, an opportunity for offering its own proposal to address any gap in crew access to the ISS. “In our judgment, contacting both providers would have been a prudent approach to maximize the Agency’s options while also ensuring fairness,” the report concluded.
https://spacenews.com/nasa-inspector-general-criticizes-addi...
Re: Boeing has now lost $1.1B on Starliner, with no crew flight in sight
#16This comment is your regularly scheduled reminder that they were supposed to be the safe option. The people who'd come in clutch when SpaceX failed (and it was assumed in certain quarters that SpaceX would fail to deliver on time). They were paid 2x more than what NASA paid SpaceX. https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/09/nasa-will-pay-boeing... RIP Boeing.
SpaceX has a fail safe where the human capsule can eject, I hope Boeing also have this
Re: Boeing has now lost $1.1B on Starliner, with no crew flight in sight
#17Earlier quoted context omitted.
US law allows companies to split off a subsidiary with all the liabilities and the main company to continue to function with all the assets just like before https://www.ltltalccommittee.org/ Boeing wouldn't need to pay anything.
They would never get another space contract again if they did that, but they can see this will be a larger market in 30 years, so they'll lick their wounds and continue on commercial space projects.
> They would never get another space contract again if they did that
People say that, but I don't think it's true. Boeing pulled out of the Phantom Express project seemingly unscathed.
https://www.space.com/boeing-withdraws-darpa-military-space-...
Re: Boeing has now lost $1.1B on Starliner, with no crew flight in sight
#18> Because Starliner was funded by NASA through a fixed-price contract, as part of the Commercial Crew program, Boeing is responsible for any cost overruns and financial losses due to delays. Given Boeing’s history here this feels like the right kind of contract for this sort of work. Ensures all incentives are aligned
The current NASA administrator, a bureaucrat who grew up during the Bush Cost+ era, is actually opposed to fixed-price contracts because they only save a lot of taxpayer money and might not actually help us get deliverables faster.
Re: Boeing has now lost $1.1B on Starliner, with no crew flight in sight
#19This comment is your regularly scheduled reminder that they were supposed to be the safe option. The people who'd come in clutch when SpaceX failed (and it was assumed in certain quarters that SpaceX would fail to deliver on time). They were paid 2x more than what NASA paid SpaceX. https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/09/nasa-will-pay-boeing... RIP Boeing.
SpaceX has a fail safe where the human capsule can eject, I hope Boeing also have this
> SpaceX has a fail safe where the human capsule can eject, I hope Boeing also have this
They do.
Re: Boeing has now lost $1.1B on Starliner, with no crew flight in sight
#20Earlier quoted context omitted.
How does that work? Does Boeing pay a penalty if they don’t make progress?
US law allows companies to split off a subsidiary with all the liabilities and the main company to continue to function with all the assets just like before https://www.ltltalccommittee.org/ Boeing wouldn't need to pay anything.
You cite LTL / J&J like they got away with it. It's currently being litigated in multiple courts, it could go either way: https://money.usnews.com/investing/news/articles/2023-06-27/...