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Google vs. the Open Web

interpeer.io

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Re: Google vs. the Open Web

#71

Post by klempner »

lrem wrote: post #37

> In general, bots are pretty easy to exclude. They usually advertise themselves by a user agent string. Yes, that can be faked – but it seems highly unlikely that bots using faked user agents create such a large number of impressions that Google has to use this route against them. Is this serious?

Yeah, this guy lost me right there.

Speaking as someone who works at Google, but not on anything at all related to ads, browsers, or ad spam detection, I only wish that the attackers who (try to) make a living out of scamming Google and its advertisers out of money were as incompetent as the author of this article appears to be.

Re: Google vs. the Open Web

#72

Post by [deleted] »

xNeil wrote: post #63
Larrikin wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd rather they bring cases and lose some instead of never bringing cases and letting the corporations do whatever they want with no fear of consequences.

If they bring cases and lose them corporations will continue doing whatever they want since there will be no consequences. It's important for the FTC to know what fights are worth fighting, and they will be taken seriously.

[deleted]

Re: Google vs. the Open Web

#73

Post by Dah00n »

EGreg wrote: post #25
dschuetz wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Build a new Web w/o Google.

We have been doing it! Join us! It isn’t perfect but we are ahead of most others (Mastodon, Matrix). We have spent TWELVE YEARS building the free, permissionless open source platform for anyone to assemble and host their own community software with all the features of Facebook/Twitter/TikTok for their own community: https://github.com/Qbix/Platform We are about to roll out version 2.0 — I have never done this before…

Interesting, if it isn't US based and if it isn't using US politics as a guideline (like banning russian patches).

I have lost a big part of my former trust and want for writing OSS this last few months and one thing I have learned is that if those two can't be answered with a resounding no it is a project I won't ever contemplate even though I'm neither American nor Russian.

Re: Google vs. the Open Web

#74

Post by urda »

xNeil wrote: post #67
Daril wrote: post #41

This is a clear sign of Google's weakness. They are losing their monopoly and are desperately trying to hold on to the net. In the last few weeks, they have announced that they will try to block navigation if you have an ad blocker installed (for example, when watching a video on Youtube). Take a look at Fuchsia for another example ... they are losing the control on Android, so they started this new project ... it is…

>Google will lose all respect from the community and will collapse sooner or later. I love this little bubble all of HN (or at least a vocal majority) seems to live in. Google is most definitely not collapsing anytime soon, and their products are loved by millions, if not billions, of users all over the world. >They are losing their monopoly No, they most definitely aren't. Brave Browser runs on top of Google's Chrom…

"the rotten tree-trunk, until the very moment when the storm-blast breaks it in two, has all the appearance of might it ever had." - Isaac Asimov, Foundation

Re: Google vs. the Open Web

#75

Post by Daril »

xNeil wrote: post #67
Daril wrote: post #41

This is a clear sign of Google's weakness. They are losing their monopoly and are desperately trying to hold on to the net. In the last few weeks, they have announced that they will try to block navigation if you have an ad blocker installed (for example, when watching a video on Youtube). Take a look at Fuchsia for another example ... they are losing the control on Android, so they started this new project ... it is…

>Google will lose all respect from the community and will collapse sooner or later. I love this little bubble all of HN (or at least a vocal majority) seems to live in. Google is most definitely not collapsing anytime soon, and their products are loved by millions, if not billions, of users all over the world. >They are losing their monopoly No, they most definitely aren't. Brave Browser runs on top of Google's Chrom…

> you are under no obligation whatsoever to use their products

Well ... with this new proposal they are trying to change this, don't you think ? Yes, it is not mandatory to watch Youtube, but it should be also mandatory that Google don't collect and sell the personal data without the owner permission or scan all the emails in every Gmail account (free o paid) ... The history of Google is full of these practices and, after discovered, every time they respond "will never do it again" ...

Re: Google vs. the Open Web

#76

Post by mikecoles »

EGreg wrote: post #25
dschuetz wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Build a new Web w/o Google.

We have been doing it! Join us! It isn’t perfect but we are ahead of most others (Mastodon, Matrix). We have spent TWELVE YEARS building the free, permissionless open source platform for anyone to assemble and host their own community software with all the features of Facebook/Twitter/TikTok for their own community: https://github.com/Qbix/Platform We are about to roll out version 2.0 — I have never done this before…

I think the github link is an Andrew Yang campaign site.

Re: Google vs. the Open Web

#77

Post by Daril »

CalRobert wrote: post #68
Daril wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, there are now many other open source projects based on Android (LineageOS and e/OS/ for example) that are free from Google. If they can't control the operating system on your phone because it's free from their services, they can't control your device, track you and send you their ads... I've been using e/OS/ for 3 years now on a phone made in Germany (Gigaset). There is always an alternative...

LineageOS is a great illustration of how Google is winning. Years ago I could use LineageOS or Cyanogenmod as my primary phone just fine. Now it's very hard to do that if I want to be able to use an increasing number of apps (banking comes to mind). And now I won't be able to bank with Firefox, either.

Try e/OS/ indeed ... it works for me and many others.

Re: Google vs. the Open Web

#78

Post by colonwqbang »

cavisne wrote: post #53

“They usually advertise themselves by a user agent string” my understanding is this is very much not true, but all that info comes from cloudflare which obviously has an incentive. Are there stats on this?

No that part of the article was very silly, almost dishonest as I imagine he actually knows better.

> If I look at my own webserver logs, it’s very clear which are bot requests

Nobody ever lies on the internet?

Re: Google vs. the Open Web

#79

Post by protocolture »

This is kind of overblown isnt it?

I remember sites doing all sorts of hacks to identify and shut down IE back in the day. "Works best in Chrome/Firefox".

"The proposal calls for at least the following information in the signed attestation:

    The attester's identity, for example, "Google Play".
    A verdict saying whether the attester considers the device trustworthy.
"

So a user agent string and a weak attestation?

This seems an overcomplex nothingburger.

Re: Google vs. the Open Web

#80

Post by [deleted] »

Daril wrote: post #66
surajrmal wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Take a look at Fuchsia for another example ... they are losing the control on Android, so they started this new project I work on fuchsia and can honestly say I have no idea what you're talking about. Fuchsia and android are more complimentary than they are competitive. I've noticed that when there is a lack of information, people tend to invent things that fit their narrative, but that's a really dangerous habit.

Taken from Wikipedia : Fuchsia is an open-source capability-based operating system developed by Google. In contrast to Google's Linux-based operating systems such as ChromeOS and Android, Fuchsia is based on a custom kernel named Zircon. It publicly debuted as a self-hosted git repository in August 2016 without any official corporate announcement. After years of development, its official product launch was on the fir…

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