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Google vs. the Open Web

interpeer.io

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Re: Google vs. the Open Web

#51

Post by Daril »

andsoitis wrote: post #46
Daril wrote: post #41

This is a clear sign of Google's weakness. They are losing their monopoly and are desperately trying to hold on to the net. In the last few weeks, they have announced that they will try to block navigation if you have an ad blocker installed (for example, when watching a video on Youtube). Take a look at Fuchsia for another example ... they are losing the control on Android, so they started this new project ... it is…

> They are losing their monopoly and are desperately trying to hold on to the net > they are losing the control on Android What do you mean by this and what does Android have to do with trying to hold on to the net?

I mean, there are now many other open source projects based on Android (LineageOS and e/OS/ for example) that are free from Google. If they can't control the operating system on your phone because it's free from their services, they can't control your device, track you and send you their ads... I've been using e/OS/ for 3 years now on a phone made in Germany (Gigaset). There is always an alternative...

Re: Google vs. the Open Web

#52

Post by KnobbleMcKnees »

hugs wrote: post #35
Roark66 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just silly, there exist frameworks like selenium that allow you to run any browser of choice and emulate actual user behavior(clicks, keystrokes). If they go further the emulation layer will have to be moved higher, above the virtual machine running the browser for example. The truth is, this has nothing to do with scraping, scrapers will find a way. This is to stop the majority of people from using ad block.

Hi, Selenium & Appium creator here. I've always been on the test automation side of things. The fact that these tools were also useful for scraping was an interesting coincidence to me. These days I make physical robots that are the "real world" equivalent of Selenium or Appium with a stylus that actually taps the screen and presses buttons. To websites and apps, taps and clicks are real, not emulated. Primary use is…

Thank you for your amazing software and for continuing to push the boundaries of test automation.

Most interesting thing I've read all week.

Re: Google vs. the Open Web

#53

Post by cavisne »

“They usually advertise themselves by a user agent string” my understanding is this is very much not true, but all that info comes from cloudflare which obviously has an incentive.

Are there stats on this?

Re: Google vs. the Open Web

#55

Post by qjx »

troupo wrote: post #2

The link to Yoav Weiss's blog is great. --- start quote --- So, you don't like a web platform proposal ...you may feel that your insights and experience can be valuable to help steer the platform from making what you're sure is a huge mistake. That's great!! Getting involved in web platform discussions is essential to ensure it's built for and by everyone. ... In cases where controversial browser proposals (or lack o…

For a personal blog it has quite a lot of PR speak

Re: Google vs. the Open Web

#56

Post by OfSanguineFire »

Daril wrote: post #51
andsoitis wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are losing their monopoly and are desperately trying to hold on to the net > they are losing the control on Android What do you mean by this and what does Android have to do with trying to hold on to the net?

I mean, there are now many other open source projects based on Android (LineageOS and e/OS/ for example) that are free from Google. If they can't control the operating system on your phone because it's free from their services, they can't control your device, track you and send you their ads... I've been using e/OS/ for 3 years now on a phone made in Germany (Gigaset). There is always an alternative...

LineageOS isn’t entirely free from Google. It relies on AOSP, which is maintained by Google, and it suffers from the decisions that Google makes. For example, Google made a change in AOSP to require location services to be installed as a system package instead of a user package, something few users know how to do. The result is that users are less likely to use something privacy-protecting like Mozilla’s location services. Moreover, Google has reimplemented a lot of AOSP functionality in its Play Services and the industry now uses those Google APIs instead of the old AOSP ones, so loads of apps won’t even run on LineageOS.

Re: Google vs. the Open Web

#57

Post by theK »

theK wrote: post #10
hotstickyballs wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that extreme but some banking apps on android did check for root at some point and refused to run so there may be precedent

In the 2000s it was funny how corporates just failed to understand how client server models worked. Nowadays it is just sad and a reason to move more and more towards crypto for the day to day banking stuff...

Oh right! I said crypto on hacker news! what was I thinking?! :-D

Re: Google vs. the Open Web

#58

Post by Zren »

Alifatisk wrote: post #12

So, how can this be bypassed in theory? Any ideas? Brainstorming is allowed. EDIT: Saw a few mention two solutions to disable the automatic verification on iOS & macOS. https://blog.cloudflare.com/how-to-enable-private-access-tok... https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT213449

Can't the browser just fake itself to look like chrome/safari without extensions to get the WEI server token?

* CON: The problem is that the WEI server could change it's tracking faster than the browser app updates it's fakeness though. There's more money in bypassing adblockers than there is in blocking them.

* CON: If it does fake itself, when you return to the original website it can assume there's no adblocker and fail to load with the adblocker unlike now where it's usually ignored.

Re: Google vs. the Open Web

#59

Post by llm_nerd »

gary_0 wrote: post #43
AndroTux wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean that’s part of the point. It’s there to exactly lock out scrapers. Or crawlers, for that matter. What a happy little coincidence.

> Or crawlers, for that matter. Companies like Google love kicking down the ladder. You can bet that the Google crawler will have its own "attestation token" but if you want to crawl the Web with your own code you'll be SOL. All these billion-dollar tech companies got their start thanks to open, accessible, hackable systems. Now it's all being locked down so only the big guys can play, and the rest of us have to pay…

"You can bet that the Google crawler will have its own "attestation token" but if you want to crawl the Web with your own code you'll be SOL."

Let's be real here and note that while most web properties welcome Google crawlers, there are many, many other scrapers/crawlers that offer zero value to web operators while costing resources.

Re: Google vs. the Open Web

#60

Post by [deleted] »

cataphract wrote: post #42
maxsilver wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's literally the FTC's job to block most mergers (they are required by law to block bad mergers, see https://www.ftc.gov/advice-guidance/competition-guidance/gui... for details) Their leadership isn't "awful", their leaders are finally doing their job , for the first time in decades.

Doing their job by losing everything in court like the Activision/Microsoft case just last week? Great use of government resources.

[deleted]
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