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Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

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Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#401

Post by UtopiaPunk »

Renaud wrote: post #281
PedroBatista wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who has been mismanaged for at least a decade and depends on Google to pay their bills.. I'm a FF user since the early 00's and Firefox will mostly not go away because Google has an interest in using it against monopoly accusations but the reality is bleak.. And the reality is these people ( Google in this case ) are so far removed from any moral compass about the Web ( at least what most people here think of "the We…

None of that should prevent anyone from using Firefox. There are no alternatives, nearly all other browsers are built on Chromium. Making FF more prominent will not give Google more power, it will give Mozilla more power to negotiate better deals with Google and Bing to become the default search engine, because in the world of browsers, that's what pays the bills. Giving more power to Mozilla hinges on them having a…

In addition to just using Firefox, people can donate to the Mozilla Foundation. I give a few bucks every month.

https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/who-we-are/

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#402

Post by Buttons840 »

fps_doug wrote: post #7
topshelf wrote: post #2

Disappointing to see such a 180 on 'don't be evil'. I'm recommending Mozilla Firefox to all friends and family.

I do, and I keep having those tiring conversations, but it's really hard to get the point across in layman's terms. I have enough friends in tech who stick with Chrome out of convenience instead of just falling back on it in case something actually doesn't work in Firefox. how do I convince tech illiterate people of doing this?

Start referring to them as "Chrome developers" -- what's this "web" thing you keep talking about?

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#403

Post by bryanrasmussen »

netdur wrote: post #241
mplewis wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WEI turns non-compliant browsers into second-class citizens. You’re perfectly free to use whatever compliant browser engine and OS combo you like today – but in a world with WEI, you’ll have to use Approved Chrome on an Approved OS on Approved Hardware with Approved Signing Keys, or you won’t be able to sign into your bank.

isn't this good? banks can raise security while we can still use any browser to check hackers news! or this 3 cows story?

one example of a non-compliant browser would be something crawling the web and building up some sort of search index of things because I don't think we want anyone to be allowed to do that.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#404

Post by doliveira »

JimDabell wrote: post #90
doliveira wrote: post #54

I was watching a video about nesting in CSS and how it's just in Chrome and comments were all about how cool it is and how they can't wait to use it, and so on, and so forth. I think it's quite a representative example: we can do that much better with SASS today, but I guess Google needs to keep features pushing at full speed so no one else can keep up. We developers are so gullible. Just give us some shiny things an…

> I was watching a video about nesting in CSS and how it's just in Chrome Nested CSS is supported in the latest version of all major browsers. https://caniuse.com/css-nesting

That's not the point...

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#405

Post by gkbrk »

UtopiaPunk wrote: post #401
Renaud wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of that should prevent anyone from using Firefox. There are no alternatives, nearly all other browsers are built on Chromium. Making FF more prominent will not give Google more power, it will give Mozilla more power to negotiate better deals with Google and Bing to become the default search engine, because in the world of browsers, that's what pays the bills. Giving more power to Mozilla hinges on them having a…

In addition to just using Firefox, people can donate to the Mozilla Foundation. I give a few bucks every month. https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/who-we-are/

Almost none of that money goes to the development of Firefox though.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#406

Post by scarface_74 »

lnxg33k1 wrote: post #372
scarface_74 wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you think the “Chrome company” would be funded? How is Firefox funded today.

Is Firefox consistently trying to find ways to show you ads? Are they working on technology that helps profiling you? One thing is funding, keeeping independence, another is controlling

They get 80% of their funding from Google. Do you think they are going to change to a “privacy first” search engine?

And Firefox already supports Google’s WideVine DRM

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/enable-drm

What makes you think they won’t support this?

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#407

Post by cmrdporcupine »

Google is clearly being evil here, but the original sin was having user-agent strings in browsers at all.

Public information on the 'world wide web' should by nature be open and accessible to any agent in a neutral way. (Of course this is implied in Google's (bullshit, cough) mission statement.) Making information about what the agent is invisible as a principle from the start would have helped with that.

In reality, that vision was lost in the early 90s when the web went from being a proposed hypertext/document/information retrieval system to being mostly a presentation system for what started as magazine/leaflet/poster analogues ("websites") to which were added dynamic client/server web applications.

The difference in model is stark: in the former, the browser, even the user, makes decisions about the presentation of the content based on mostly structural information declared in the document. In the latter, the 'document' is not a document, but a program executed on the users computer.

And once you've made that transition, the "developer" of the "program" now expects more and more of the kinds of controls they get when they truly control the platform.

And it doesn't help that in the midst of this, mobile applications came on the scene, undermined the web completely, and changed expectations of how content should be made available. From that point on it became even more expected by companies and product managers that they control the whole sandbox. e.g. Meta couldn't even be bothered to launch Threads on web, probably precisely because they don't like the restrictions there, and having full control is so much more profitable to them, and they're not the first.

In any case, this all sucks. I've already personally switched to Firefox in most places, but the very fact that Google feels emboldened to push this tact says a lot about the state of the web and how this 30 year trajectory has gone.

In a way, I just hope the "www" dies and all of us who helped create this thing in the first place birth something new and better. But this is also hopelessly naive.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#408

Post by prox »

jwells89 wrote: post #359
oxygen_crisis wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised not to see more love for Librewolf here on HN. It's just the latest Firefox release, recompiled without all the Mozilla telemetry, and with all the settings flipped to more secure/private defaults so all the tracking features are opt-in instead of opt-out.

Honestly I think the name of the project might be limiting its adoption. It’s sometimes annoying for the more technically inclined among us, but branding matters a lot. You need a name that’s snappy and memorable, which “Librewolf” is not. Firefox is actually a pretty good example of good branding. It’s short, rolls off the tongue, has pleasant alliteration, and evokes mental imagery.

Unfortunately on the whole techies are absolutely poor at marketing, which is a skill all by itself.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#409

Post by pndy »

mozball wrote: post #26

If this isn't the straw that breaks the camel's back, there is never going to be one. Google needs to be broken up. They own the browser market. They own the web (through Adwords). They own Search. They own mobile. They own most of the video sharing market with 2.5 billion monthly annual users. They own a good chunk of email with 1.2 billion monthly annual users. They have amassed an incomprehensible amount of power…

That would be a desirable action but look what happen in the end of 90s to Microsoft. It was about to be broken up and in the very end it didn't. They become dormant and polite only to strike back some 10 years ago with Windows 10, its telemetry, ads and cloud services which are being pushed onto users whether they like or not. And somehow, no regulators decided to step in to clean up this company's behavior - everyone seems to be ok with what MS is doing. Whether it's the US or EU. I take that the business and lobbing goes extremely well in both markets.

And because of this, I don't believe that the US is able to break Google or the other flagship companies despite of reasons existing for such action.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#410

Post by martin8412 »

lxgr wrote: post #315
bee_rider wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firefox is helping you, Ticketmaster is evil.

Maybe so, but asking somebody to not go to shows of their favorite bands anymore as a form of protest against Ticketmaster and/or Google is a bit much. Unfortunately, some venues seem to be Ticketmaster only at this point. Sometimes you’ve got to choose your battles.

Yes, because the ones who owns the venues also own Ticketmaster.

Live Nation is the name.

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