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Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

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Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#241

Post by netdur »

mplewis wrote: post #191
anshumankmr wrote: post #160

As someone who is a somewhat new to web technologies, can someone really explain why this is bad? I saw the techical discussions in the PRs made to the WEI repo but it was all super technical that I was not able to understand the arguments made for and against it.

WEI turns non-compliant browsers into second-class citizens. You’re perfectly free to use whatever compliant browser engine and OS combo you like today – but in a world with WEI, you’ll have to use Approved Chrome on an Approved OS on Approved Hardware with Approved Signing Keys, or you won’t be able to sign into your bank.

isn't this good? banks can raise security while we can still use any browser to check hackers news! or this 3 cows story?

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#242

Post by amalcon »

petepete wrote: post #105
LikelyABurner wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait until your bank requires you to use it to pay your bills and tax preparation websites require it to pay for taxes.

My former business bank actually did this. They insisted their web app "was compatible with all modern browsers, but more compatible with Chrome" - I couldn't make transfers to other accounts with Firefox, it just hung indefinitely. Virgin Money, UK - https://uk.virginmoney.com/

> was compatible with all modern browsers, but more compatible with Chrome

Is Animal Farm not required reading in Orwell's home country? Or was that a misquote, or maybe just something from a random support worker? It's almost too on the nose for that statement to be written by someone familiar with that book.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#245

Post by userbinator »

zeteo wrote: post #100
c0l0 wrote: post #5

I feel like I have to repeat this, since so much is at stake here, where it is about the preservation of the web as we know it today, at the peril of having it turned into yet another walled garden: The only way around the dystopia this will lead to is to constantly and relentlessly shame and even harass all those involved in helping create it. The scolding in the issue tracker of that wretched "project" shall flow l…

It won't do anything. You don't think they've anticipated random angry outbursts going into this? Plus, the people you're harassing are simply implementing a policy that they don't have the power to change. The only pressure that Google has been shown to consistently respond to is political . Get a couple of senators (... of the right party) to send them a mild rebuke and they will indeed retreat a little (... and tr…

Directly sending a message to the implementers doesn't preclude involving politicians in this too, and I absolutely agree that the latter should be involved.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#246

Post by xp84 »

jsjohnst wrote: post #126
scarface_74 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What browser “business”? Chrome makes no money. Don’t you think they are going to fund themselves the same way that Firefox does - via Google ads? No one has paid for a browser in almost 3 decades and even then few did.

> No one has paid for a browser in almost 3 decades and even then few did. Considering NCSA Mosaic’s initial release was just 30 years ago this year and it’s considered the first browser, think you might be using a bit of hyperbole there? Twenty years would’ve been more accurate.

MSIE was free, 28 years ago in late 1995, and while Netscape did take 5 years to follow suit, by 1998 Netscape was not in a healthy position because of the free competition.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#247

Post by sherr »

petepete wrote: post #105
LikelyABurner wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait until your bank requires you to use it to pay your bills and tax preparation websites require it to pay for taxes.

My former business bank actually did this. They insisted their web app "was compatible with all modern browsers, but more compatible with Chrome" - I couldn't make transfers to other accounts with Firefox, it just hung indefinitely. Virgin Money, UK - https://uk.virginmoney.com/

I use Virgin Bank and Firefox works OK for me.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#248

Post by scarface_74 »

marcinzm wrote: post #145
scarface_74 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What browser “business”? Chrome makes no money. Don’t you think they are going to fund themselves the same way that Firefox does - via Google ads? No one has paid for a browser in almost 3 decades and even then few did.

I don't think you understand what a business is. Google pays Firefox a lot of money to be the default search which means there is a lot of money in browsers. Google Search conceptually pays Google Chrome to be the default Search engine on Chrome. Except since they're both under the same company they will never take an outside offer which is why it's a monopoly. No different from any other vertically integrated compan…

I understand that perfectly, how do you think the theoretical Chrome business would make money?

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#249

Post by rchaud »

scarface_74 wrote: post #94
alistairSH wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google broke itself up in 2015. What are you even asking for here? No, it didn't, it restructured itself into Alphabet, with many subsidiaries. But, all the core businesses are still under that umbrella organization, with most web-related businesses remaining inside the current Google entity. A forced divestment of the browser business might help. Same for the productivity products.

What browser “business”? Chrome makes no money. Don’t you think they are going to fund themselves the same way that Firefox does - via Google ads? No one has paid for a browser in almost 3 decades and even then few did.

Chromebooks are literally a browser that you pay for, and they are heavily embedded in the US education system.

Just because they don't sell floppies in a box like it's 1994 doesn't mean these aren't businesses.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#250

Post by Mountain_Skies »

coldpie wrote: post #139
mozball wrote: post #26

If this isn't the straw that breaks the camel's back, there is never going to be one. Google needs to be broken up. They own the browser market. They own the web (through Adwords). They own Search. They own mobile. They own most of the video sharing market with 2.5 billion monthly annual users. They own a good chunk of email with 1.2 billion monthly annual users. They have amassed an incomprehensible amount of power…

> Google needs to be broken up. To make it explicit: the only way this happens is by Americans voting for it. The FTC has been more active on anti-trust issues in the past two years than at any time in the past 30. That's a direct result of the 2020 election. Elections matter.

How much of that involves the tech industry? Are you seriously claiming that Silicon Valley and Donald Trump were besties while the Democrats and tech hate each other?
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