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Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

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351–360 of 876 posts

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#351
I don't see how this will end the "free web." No publisher will be forced to use DRM. Anyone can still create a website and make it accessible to anyone for free with an internet connection.

If certain publishers want to require ads to view their content, that seems like their prerogative.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#352

Is adding a feature-flag really the same as pushing the feature into the browser immediately? It can easily just be part of a SWE needing the flag in place in order to continue work without impacting anything else, even if that thing never ever launches. In general Google engineers don't tend to work on branches, especially long-running ones. Incremental small code reviews are the expectation. The general process wou…

[flagged]

Do you or did you work at Google? Because I did, for 10 years.

And can we retire this inane content-less quip already?

Also I'm old enough that even my children aren't children anymore. How I would dearly love for your statement to be true.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#353
post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What browser “business”? Chrome makes no money. Don’t you think they are going to fund themselves the same way that Firefox does - via Google ads? No one has paid for a browser in almost 3 decades and even then few did.

Chromebooks are literally a browser that you pay for, and they are heavily embedded in the US education system. Just because they don't sell floppies in a box like it's 1994 doesn't mean these aren't businesses.

Yes, you just pay for the browser and not the hardware. Are ChromeBooks also a “keyboard you pay for”?

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#354
post #186

It's small, but here's a real actionable item that you can do to help: Put a gentle "Use Firefox" (or any other non-Chromium-based browser) message on your website. It doesn't have to be in-your-face, just something small. I've taken my own advice and added it to my own website: https://geeklaunch.io/ (It only appears on Chromium-based browsers.) We can slowly turn the tide, little by little.

For people who want to put something like this, here is the code snippet:

  
    This website is designed for Firefox, a web browser that respects your privacy.
  

  
    if (window.chrome) {
      document.getElementById('browser').className = '';
    }
  
Class .hidden must hide the element somehow, in this case I do:

  .hidden { display: none; }

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#355
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Browser application needs to pass a binary image check, and if the browser hash doesn't match Google database, you cannot proceed to the website (since your browser may be corrupted). A major big deal for non main-stream browser, and for non Google browser developers, extension developers (eg. AdBlock), etc. In summary, some websites (like banks, Netflix, etc) will no longer be available for non mainstream browse…

Can you please explain why a third party browser can’t lie about its hash, just like it can lie about it’s user agent?

Because the encryption key you need to sign the hash lives in EL3[0] and only Google and ARM can load code there. In order to lie about your hash, you have to break ARM TrustZone, and if you do that you can be sued under section 1201 for trafficking in copy protection circumvention tools. In other words, the law that prohibits you from selling DVD copiers can be used to give literally any bullshit the backing of law.

[0] An ARM exception level that sits above hypervisors and is specifically intended to support trusted execution modes for isolated mini-operating-systems that do this sort of shit

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have a Google account and don't use any Google service, still think that this libertarian message is bullshit, how do you do the free will if the web starts deciding which OS/Browser are authorised to do something? I am not sure we are talking about free will or useful idiots

And how will “breaking up Google” help if the “Chrome company” is still implementing DRM?

Because you break the interest of showing ads from google search/adwords, to the interest of surfinh web freely of those who would work on chrome

Now google has both the need to show ads, and direct power on what people use to see those ads

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#357
so in the case of a forced implementation of this, websites don't actually need to adapt.

i think if people see websites constantly being broken in chrome, instead they'll pick another browser, that's most people's first instincts when a site doesn't work.

just a take i guess, will it divide the web in 2?

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#358
post #27

Is adding a feature-flag really the same as pushing the feature into the browser immediately? It can easily just be part of a SWE needing the flag in place in order to continue work without impacting anything else, even if that thing never ever launches. In general Google engineers don't tend to work on branches, especially long-running ones. Incremental small code reviews are the expectation. The general process wou…

Companies don't usually make a habit of having their employees work on something they don't intend to pursue.

Yes, they actually do. Or rather, there is no "company", there are thousands of different decision makers.

My point is that at some other company (e.g. Apple) it would be done in secret on a branch somewhere, then big-bang merged later.

Google's process doesn't tend to work that way.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear Firefox is mismanaged all the time, but it seems to be a perfectly fine browser for the most part. I hear all about sites that won’t render in comments on this website, but they must all be internal tools or something because I never encounter them.

I'm surprised not to see more love for Librewolf here on HN. It's just the latest Firefox release, recompiled without all the Mozilla telemetry, and with all the settings flipped to more secure/private defaults so all the tracking features are opt-in instead of opt-out.

Honestly I think the name of the project might be limiting its adoption. It’s sometimes annoying for the more technically inclined among us, but branding matters a lot. You need a name that’s snappy and memorable, which “Librewolf” is not.

Firefox is actually a pretty good example of good branding. It’s short, rolls off the tongue, has pleasant alliteration, and evokes mental imagery.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#360
post #186

It's small, but here's a real actionable item that you can do to help: Put a gentle "Use Firefox" (or any other non-Chromium-based browser) message on your website. It doesn't have to be in-your-face, just something small. I've taken my own advice and added it to my own website: https://geeklaunch.io/ (It only appears on Chromium-based browsers.) We can slowly turn the tide, little by little.

This advice has strong 1998 vibes.

That's high praise.
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