Live data from Hacker News

Google vs. the Open Web

interpeer.io

31–40 of 207 posts

Re: Google vs. the Open Web

#31
post #28

I mentioned this in the other WEI thread and I’ll do it here again: Instead of simply flailing our collective arms around complaining about an evil corporation, has anyone written to the respective competition authorities (such as the FTC in the US or CCI in India) about the potential anticompetitive effects of this proposal?

FTC right now has awful leadership. They only care about blocking mergers and scoring political points.

That is a defeatist attitude; writing to them couldn't be worth less than shouting into the abyss with our comments on Github issues and on HN, etc.

Re: Google vs. the Open Web

#32
post #19
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's two aspects to that actually. 1. Often the feedback goes completely to the wrong address. You won't stop Google from doing google things. 2. Most often the depth level at which the discussions on web standard are made will alienate most people, so instead of participating in "standards making" they turn somewhere else (1.). The web is awesome and it got awesome because for the first 15 years of its existence…

> Most often the depth level at which the discussions on web standard are made will alienate most people, so instead of participating in "standards making" they turn somewhere else It also takes a lot of time. You have to read quite a few proposals, and there are literally hundreds of them, you have to participate in discussions in the GitHub issues, on the w3c mailing list, and in multiple face-to-face discussions.…

Agreed.

As I say in the original comment > process will ... eventually fail if the public cannot appoint people to be vigilant full time for them.

And I was exactly thinking of paid full time work.

Re: Google vs. the Open Web

#34
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FTC right now has awful leadership. They only care about blocking mergers and scoring political points.

That is a defeatist attitude; writing to them couldn't be worth less than shouting into the abyss with our comments on Github issues and on HN, etc.

One thing that I’ve heard before is if one person complains a politician knows there’s 9 more.

Re: Google vs. the Open Web

#35
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean that’s part of the point. It’s there to exactly lock out scrapers. Or crawlers, for that matter. What a happy little coincidence.

This is just silly, there exist frameworks like selenium that allow you to run any browser of choice and emulate actual user behavior(clicks, keystrokes). If they go further the emulation layer will have to be moved higher, above the virtual machine running the browser for example. The truth is, this has nothing to do with scraping, scrapers will find a way. This is to stop the majority of people from using ad block.

Hi, Selenium & Appium creator here. I've always been on the test automation side of things. The fact that these tools were also useful for scraping was an interesting coincidence to me. These days I make physical robots that are the "real world" equivalent of Selenium or Appium with a stylus that actually taps the screen and presses buttons. To websites and apps, taps and clicks are real, not emulated. Primary use is still test automation, especially when it also involves a real-world component like a credit card transaction with a credit card reader. The number of people contacting me who are interested in getting a physical robot as a way to circumvent software bot detection is increasing. Yes, scrapers will find a way.

Re: Google vs. the Open Web

#36

So, how can this be bypassed in theory? Any ideas? Brainstorming is allowed. EDIT: Saw a few mention two solutions to disable the automatic verification on iOS & macOS. https://blog.cloudflare.com/how-to-enable-private-access-tok... https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT213449

It can't, that's the point. Unless you steal the attestation key from Google.

Disabling the feature on your device will make you fail attestation and thus websites requiring it will just stop working.

Re: Google vs. the Open Web

#37
> In general, bots are pretty easy to exclude. They usually advertise themselves by a user agent string. Yes, that can be faked – but it seems highly unlikely that bots using faked user agents create such a large number of impressions that Google has to use this route against them.

Is this serious?

Re: Google vs. the Open Web

#38
Another year closer to a Shadowrun future, minus the magic, where the most powerful corporations run everything, are more powerful than most nation states, and where your only allowed role in life is a consumer/corpse-servant for life (unless you want to risk the harsh penalties of being illegal and running the shadows).

I think we will get to a PostCapitalist future. The decisions we make in the next 7 years will likely determine whether the probable future is dystopian like Shadowrun, or utopian like Paul Mason (see his book "Postcapitalism: a Guide to Our Future").

Personally, I prefer Mason's, with his goals of:

- Rapidly reduce carbon emissions to stay below 2 °C warming by 2050 (edit: We've lost this battle, see the current 6-sigma sea ice event and recent AMOC reports - maybe we can hold it to 3 °C).

- Stabilise and socialise the global finance system.

- Prioritise information-rich technologies to deliver material prosperity and solve social challenges such as ill health and welfare dependency.

- Gear technology towards minimising necessary work, until work becomes voluntary and economic management can focus on energy and resources rather than capital and labour.

That will not be if we do not bring to heel the FAANG companies now, and prevent things like Apple's Private Access Token, Google's WEI, etc. from taking root (yanking them out of the ground where already present).

Re: Google vs. the Open Web

#39
post #28

I mentioned this in the other WEI thread and I’ll do it here again: Instead of simply flailing our collective arms around complaining about an evil corporation, has anyone written to the respective competition authorities (such as the FTC in the US or CCI in India) about the potential anticompetitive effects of this proposal?

FTC right now has awful leadership. They only care about blocking mergers and scoring political points.

It's literally the FTC's job to block most mergers (they are required by law to block bad mergers, see https://www.ftc.gov/advice-guidance/competition-guidance/gui... for details)

Their leadership isn't "awful", their leaders are finally doing their job, for the first time in decades.

Post reply on HN