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The burden of Long Covid “so large as to be unfathomable”

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Re: The burden of Long Covid “so large as to be unfathomable”

#211

Post by giardini »

w______roy wrote: post #90
treprinum wrote: post #57

I spent two years in bed, sometimes sleeping 16 hours a day and feeling like passing out just from walking 100m. All my tests were fine, all doctors thought it's just "anxiety" and basically ignored me until I had what looked like a stroke when they started taking it slightly more seriously. However, given all the tests were OK I went in circles from one doctor to another when I had better days, or being completely b…

I can relate about physical exercise—I had debilitating long covid symptoms for about six months with no end in sight. Could not work out, had to plan climbing stairs around my schedule so I'd have 20 minutes after to recover. Until I was forced to go on a business trip to Europe for two weeks where I was walking 20-30,000 steps a day and carrying luggage everywhere. Afterwards I felt 80-90% better, it was crazy. Sti…

Europe trip = better diet + restricted schedule (esp. sleep)

perhaps?

Re: The burden of Long Covid “so large as to be unfathomable”

#212

Post by AndrewDucker »

getmeinrn wrote: post #16

>And yet we know perfectly well that there were many people who were vaccinated who did get breakthrough infections and some of those have gone on to get long Covid, but we know that in those breakthrough cases in the vaccinated people, your chance of long Covid is further reduced perhaps by another 50 percent. As far as I see, they aren't referencing a specific study. But they are clearly making a connection between…

Here's the BBC's write up on the subject https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-60393588

Re: The burden of Long Covid “so large as to be unfathomable”

#213

Post by Timon3 »

unsupp0rted wrote: post #210
Timon3 wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But is it the same spike protein? As far as I'm aware, yes. > Does it end up in the same tissues as COVID? Does the mRNA delivery & creation vector matter? I haven't seen any evidence for different tissue, or effects due to mRNA delivery & creation. Given how big the anti-COVID-vax movement and industry is I feel fairly sure that any such issues would have been found by now. > I rolled the dice and got triple-vaxxe…

> As far as I'm aware > I haven't seen any evidence > I feel fairly sure > it feels like

I'm not perfect, so I qualify my statements. What is your issue with that? Would you like it better if I pretended that I know everything with 100% certainty?

Re: The burden of Long Covid “so large as to be unfathomable”

#214

Post by dsab »

last_responder wrote: post #115
dsab wrote: post #87

I am sceptic to long covid since I dont believe in big pharma good intentions. Years have passed since one pharma company knowingly sold infected drugs to 3rd world countries [1], but the nature of human didn't change. Big companies are run by people with black triad personality traits and who are incredibly greedy [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/may/23/aids.suzannego...

The idiots are leaking into HN

yes there are more and more people who believe everything they read on internet

Re: The burden of Long Covid “so large as to be unfathomable”

#215

Post by unsupp0rted »

Timon3 wrote: post #213
unsupp0rted wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As far as I'm aware > I haven't seen any evidence > I feel fairly sure > it feels like

I'm not perfect, so I qualify my statements. What is your issue with that? Would you like it better if I pretended that I know everything with 100% certainty?

That is my point: none of this well understood, by you/me/anyone, and it's absurd to assume it is.

Absolutely none of our base assumptions related to these mRNA vaccines don't require extreme scrutiny. It's not tinfoil-hat territory to say so.

Re: The burden of Long Covid “so large as to be unfathomable”

#216

Post by rzwitserloot »

treprinum wrote: post #57

I spent two years in bed, sometimes sleeping 16 hours a day and feeling like passing out just from walking 100m. All my tests were fine, all doctors thought it's just "anxiety" and basically ignored me until I had what looked like a stroke when they started taking it slightly more seriously. However, given all the tests were OK I went in circles from one doctor to another when I had better days, or being completely b…

> I really think medical science gets many things wrong and knows only a small piece of puzzle on how the human body works, and people with long covid are stuck in that knowledge gap.

The vast majority of medical researchers agree with you.

> started taking about 50 different supplements with any "word-of-mouth" evidence from Reddit forums

Just taking every chemical under the sun because some random jane said 'hey it worked for me' is not better, obviously.

Anti-quackery activists and doctors in general are telling you that taking a boatload of supplements based on ads and shills is unlikely to help (you got real, real lucky here), and is quite likely to cause serious damage, and also takes you mostly out of the medical sphere of influence entirely - whatever weird results come up when medical professionals run some tests are now tainted by all the stuff you are taking.

An entirely separate problem is that a combination of an ever expanding menu of medical interventions that we (humanity) knows about and an aging population means that healthcare as a principle is effectively unaffordable without massive tax increases which the population votes against. Hence, the healthcare that can be provided is gruff and fast, and cannot cater to complicated cases like yours. Which has to be very frustrating for you.

Re: The burden of Long Covid “so large as to be unfathomable”

#217

Post by treprinum »

rzwitserloot wrote: post #216
treprinum wrote: post #57

I spent two years in bed, sometimes sleeping 16 hours a day and feeling like passing out just from walking 100m. All my tests were fine, all doctors thought it's just "anxiety" and basically ignored me until I had what looked like a stroke when they started taking it slightly more seriously. However, given all the tests were OK I went in circles from one doctor to another when I had better days, or being completely b…

> I really think medical science gets many things wrong and knows only a small piece of puzzle on how the human body works, and people with long covid are stuck in that knowledge gap. The vast majority of medical researchers agree with you. > started taking about 50 different supplements with any "word-of-mouth" evidence from Reddit forums Just taking every chemical under the sun because some random jane said 'hey it…

So if I understood you correctly, you are complaining I got better because I took supplements without a prior medical professional approval because other folks discussing long covid reported improvements from taking them? Cycling through dozens of specialists across two years without a single one finding anything, yet barely existing? Did I spoil your pristine machine learning dataset? Are you serious?

Re: The burden of Long Covid “so large as to be unfathomable”

#218

Post by Timon3 »

unsupp0rted wrote: post #215
Timon3 wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not perfect, so I qualify my statements. What is your issue with that? Would you like it better if I pretended that I know everything with 100% certainty?

That is my point: none of this well understood, by you/me/anyone, and it's absurd to assume it is. Absolutely none of our base assumptions related to these mRNA vaccines don't require extreme scrutiny. It's not tinfoil-hat territory to say so.

I think you're misunderstanding me. I'm not arguing that we shouldn't do further research in mRNA interventions, or that it's perfectly understood. I'm arguing that we also don't understand COVID well, and that we should use similar levels of care for both, instead of treating COVID as fully understood and only looking at mRNA with a healthy dose of scepticism.

Re: The burden of Long Covid “so large as to be unfathomable”

#219

Post by tim333 »

treprinum wrote: post #217
rzwitserloot wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I really think medical science gets many things wrong and knows only a small piece of puzzle on how the human body works, and people with long covid are stuck in that knowledge gap. The vast majority of medical researchers agree with you. > started taking about 50 different supplements with any "word-of-mouth" evidence from Reddit forums Just taking every chemical under the sun because some random jane said 'hey it…

So if I understood you correctly, you are complaining I got better because I took supplements without a prior medical professional approval because other folks discussing long covid reported improvements from taking them? Cycling through dozens of specialists across two years without a single one finding anything, yet barely existing? Did I spoil your pristine machine learning dataset? Are you serious?

Yeah it seems logical that trial and error with the "hey it worked for me" stuff probably has more chance of working than doing nothing.

Re: The burden of Long Covid “so large as to be unfathomable”

#220

Post by AnonCoward42 »

treprinum wrote: post #206
AnonCoward42 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is actually a good point. Not necessarily true for everyone, but it can be caused by avoiding physical exercise too much after being sick for weeks. It mimics/triggers depression and you feel sick/bad because of that. Had that pre-2019, so it sounds very familiar. I felt sick for months and when I had to ignore it, it went relatively quickly away (in a few days really). Some might call this psychosomatic, but I…

Full tilt meant 200m walk in the park -> instant PEM. When you have no clue what is going on, stop applying your basic recipes on new health issues from pandemics, you would literally harm other people that could suffer because of your silliness. Imagine this condition being more like being at 3/4 of slow dying from asphyxia on Mt. Everest. It felt like I was 70 years older and started understanding what old people g…

> When you have no clue what is going on, stop applying your basic recipes on new health issues from pandemics, you would literally harm other people that could suffer because of your silliness.

How can my comment harm people? It didn't say that walking (any distance) is the only or the lowest exercise possible nor did I say that lack of exercise is the only explanation to begin with. Actually the opposite is implied and taking a walk was an example for something that is usually not considered exercise.

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