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Young people are flocking to astrology

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#721

Post by BiteCode_dev »

honzabe wrote: post #649
BiteCode_dev wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked in various "alternative" industries in my youth. One day I was having an informal diner with people that, in another context, could have been business partners. One guy was making a killing with an astrology service by phone. He started with those text message based games, that were popular in the 2000'. Remember? "Send 'love' to this number to know if he loves you". And eventually created a full phone call…

>> "You have to see astrology as porn for women", he said. If that is the case, what is the pleasure they get out of it? Porn triggers the pleasure centers that sex triggers... but astrology, what does that trigger? Sense of security that you "know" your future after reading your horoscope? Or what? Did the guy have any theory about that?

The analogy is only meant for the consumption pattern and business model.

Extrapolating it to anything else than that would be to read too much into an anecdote given at a diner.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#722

Post by mistermann »

machina_ex_deus wrote: post #303
nprateem wrote: post #66

I had an argument with a girl the other day who was adamant she wanted to know my star sign. I said "you tell me" and after 10 guesses I finally told her. She then went on to tell me what I must like etc - most of which was complete bollocks obviously. I told her her beliefs were akin to racism. Just because of when I was born she thought it was acceptable not to bother to treat me as an individual but as automatical…

Speaking of stereotypes, if anyone takes astrology seriously, I automatically assume they are not intelligent, irrational, and I find it impossible to take them seriously. I consider them beyond reason so I don't even try. If a person's logic and epistemology lead to him believing in astrology, it shows a deeper problem and I don't hope to have an intelligent discussion with them any more than I expect to have an int…

If you review the assertions in your comment, do you consider yourself good (or better) at epistemology and rationality, on an absolute scale?

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#723

Post by mavhc »

achenet wrote: post #611
WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #586

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You know, given the choice between ISIS and antivaxxers, I think I'll take the anitvaxxers. Say Christian nationalism rose to it's post-reconstruction prominence. Where would you put it? > agree that religious/spiritual groups can be good for social ties. Further: Religious humanitarian projects aren't insignificant and it's not like they're competing with non-religious aid. If aiding religions disappeared, nothing…

> Say Christian nationalism rose to it's post-reconstruction prominence. Where would you put it? I had to look up what this meant, so if I'm mis-interpreting it, please correct me. But from what I understand it's just ISIS but swap the Quran for the Bible? Not a huge fan of that idea. Really any fundamentalist religion ramming it's morality down my throat grinds my gears. Still prefer the anti-vaxxers. At least they'…

Religious groups have been disappearing, and in their place is a rise in new age woo that's worse than the previous solution.

The problem with Anti Vax is it's fine until a threshold is reached and then everyone gets diseases

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#725

Post by WindyLakeReturn »

caeril wrote: post #560
4gotunameagain wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it is impossible to prove such thing. All arguments of this kind rely on some kind of shaky or dubious foundation.

Prove, no - but the best argument for a "God" is the simulation argument. Space and time is quantized at the planck scale, which strongly suggests that our known universe is a simulation. Simulation implies a simulator, which would by necessity be an omniscient "God". Obviously this God would bear no resemblance to any of the popular Abrahamic Gods. Nonetheless, anyone who subscribes to the simulation hypothesis cann…

Isn't the actual simulation argument based on information density being bounded in a way that doesn't make sense. Something like we would think information density should be bounded by 3d. You have twice as much 3d space, you can hold twice as much information. But the physics argument (and I think it is still theoretical physics) is that it is actually bounded by the 2D surface area of that space, not the 3D volume. I forget the details of how this ties into simulation.

I also think there is some math in general relativity that works out much better if we assume 3D space is actually the 3d-surface area equivalent of a 4d space (and not the 4d space time), which makes us more like a hologram of 4d space. But this is another one where I forget most of the details that actually matter.

These combine give us the hologram simulation that pops up in pop culture from time to time, but what you read about in any blog or news article has nothing to do with the actual math and science behind the theories/hypothesis/what ifs.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#726

Post by loriverkutya »

hutzlibu wrote: post #301
seer wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the saying goes, “all models are wrong, some models are useful” While the astrology “model” is obviously wrong, it must have been useful to someone at sometime for it to have gained such a popularity. Like the “flat earth model” is actually extremely useful if you don’t intend (can’t) travel significant distances - gives you a coordinate system, maps and ways to predict where you’re going to be tomorrow if you tra…

"The time of birth can also correlate loosely with personality. " I mean it does have an effect, if you spend the first months of your life outside in the sun, or hidden inside. And the parents also behave different in summer than in winter. But to conclude that every person born in december must be like this and that .. is frustrating to deal with.

You seems like to think in the northern hemisphere and places with 4 seasons.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#727

Post by goodbyesf »

machina_ex_deus wrote: post #303
nprateem wrote: post #66

I had an argument with a girl the other day who was adamant she wanted to know my star sign. I said "you tell me" and after 10 guesses I finally told her. She then went on to tell me what I must like etc - most of which was complete bollocks obviously. I told her her beliefs were akin to racism. Just because of when I was born she thought it was acceptable not to bother to treat me as an individual but as automatical…

Speaking of stereotypes, if anyone takes astrology seriously, I automatically assume they are not intelligent, irrational, and I find it impossible to take them seriously. I consider them beyond reason so I don't even try. If a person's logic and epistemology lead to him believing in astrology, it shows a deeper problem and I don't hope to have an intelligent discussion with them any more than I expect to have an int…

> I automatically assume they are not intelligent, irrational, and I find it impossible to take them seriously... I can't see an intelligent person ever falling for it.

Some of the smartest people we know, who gave us modern astronomy - Galileo, Kepler, et al - were into astrology.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#728

Post by mistermann »

machina_ex_deus wrote: post #377
varjag wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no qualitative difference between belief in astrology and any of the world's religions. Not saying you're not entitled in disregarding astrology believers but the cut-off point is completely arbitrary and dare I say irrational.

To me there is an a huge difference. I can accept religions, which are adding axioms that aren't falsifiable, and that are usually taught to a person when he is a child. And religions had their roles in shaping society for good. I can accept conspiracy theories and disbelieving the known consensus. I just can't accept a person who, in the age where we know exactly how planets move and what they are, decided to believ…

Did you include consciousness in the model of reality you're mistaking for reality itself? Because it can provide a causal link between pretty much anything, making your reductive "rational" analysis junk, if not dangerous.

Faith comes in many forms, in any undertaking human are involved in including science, watch out!

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#729

Post by lavp »

marl0 wrote: post #720

Has anyone considered that the modulation of light reflected by the planets could potentially have some kind of impact on people? I feel it's pretty arrogant to out right deny the potential of astrology. It's been practiced for thousands of years by multiple cultures and faiths for a reason. I agree you shouldn't base your whole life on metaphysics, but to think we absolutely know everything about the mysteries of th…

Using an unfalsifiable framework is not a good way of trying to understand the universe.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#730

Post by zagrebian »

harimau777 wrote: post #575

I have a pet theory that things like astrology, tarot, the I Ching, Myers Briggs, etc. are valuable (and therefore stick around) not because they have a supernatural or scientific ability to make correct predictions, but because they provide a useful framework for discussing topics. So for example, even if tarot doesn't give you supernatural insight, the discussion it generates with the card reader may allow you to r…

Yeah, it’s the same with religion in general.
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