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Young people are flocking to astrology

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Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#681

Post by booleandilemma »

safety1st wrote: post #580
machina_ex_deus wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking of stereotypes, if anyone takes astrology seriously, I automatically assume they are not intelligent, irrational, and I find it impossible to take them seriously. I consider them beyond reason so I don't even try. If a person's logic and epistemology lead to him believing in astrology, it shows a deeper problem and I don't hope to have an intelligent discussion with them any more than I expect to have an int…

I don't believe in astrology either, but frankly, this sort of zealous hyper-rationality is a great way to die alone. Like someone who's not into astrology will overhear you and the word that will get around will be "Don't invite that guy to parties, he is not fun." You will reap far better dividends from just taking people as they are and trying to find the best in them. Which is the most rational thing to do is it…

Ah yes, the "tolerate astrology or else women won't have sex with you" argument.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#682

Post by subjectsigma »

Biganon wrote: post #99
subjectsigma wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We want to explain the world, learn about it, about ourself. Better astrology than religion. Lol yeah, why seek community, like-minded individuals, or deep conversations about morality when you can sit alone in your room and have an app subscription tell you how you’re supposed to feel that day?

Your describing both the best aspects of an optimal religion and the most stupid aspects of astrology is extremely dishonest and unworthy of HN And I say that as someone who believes neither in religion nor in astrology

> describing both the best aspects of an optimal religion

Nearly every major religion ever was primarily a function of community and culture. Religion mostly just brings people together and makes them talk. What they do afterwards is when things can go really well or really bad. It’s not “dishonest” to describe religion this way, it’s the main point of having a religion

By contrast astrology is all about you, your feelings, your life and your personal connection to some cosmic background, it has nothing to do with helping people or developing shared goals and everything to do with thinking the literal universe shifts and groans for you

> unworthy of HN

When was the last time you went outside? You sound like a 12 year old, or a basement-dweller.

And I say that as someone who believes neither in religion nor in astrology

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#683

Post by brutal_true_101 »

idoubtit wrote: post #187
anon-3988 wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I think that it is perhaps beneficial to not completely remove religion, but replace it with something that is more aligned to the 21st century. Let's be honest, humans are very flawed and prone to succumb to religious thinking; regardless of how smart/dumb you are. Superstitious thinking can arise from simple day to day observation. So it is much better to fill in the void with something dull like "do go…

What's the point if this mysticism doesn't make "better" people than any random superstition or religion? I fear it's more dangerous than most basic superstitions. I mean, these "self-introspection, consciousness-obsessed cultures like Hindu and Buddhism" are a source of hatred and violence. The Hindu majority is India is on this brutal trend. And in Burma-Birmania-Myanmar, the Buddhist population was almost unanimou…

That's not religion.

That's just sociology playing out.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#684

Post by brutal_true_101 »

keiferski wrote: post #56

One of my favorite philosophy books is A Secular Age by Charles Taylor. It has a lot of interesting ideas, but a key one is that the “subtraction thesis” of secularity is wrong. By this, he means the narrative that secular society today simply “subtracted” religious beliefs and behaviors of yesteryear. Instead, these things have just morphed into different forms, with astrology being a prime example. It can be unders…

Any other books you can recommend?

I am just getting into reading about this stuff.

It has made me realize that I am not as rational as I once thought I was.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#685

Post by detourdog »

harimau777 wrote: post #626
FishInTheWater wrote: post #614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're assuming here that there has to be "real" value at the root. This isn't really true. Astrology, Tarot, the I Ching, or any other kind of divination all serve the same purpose: To provide certainty where there is none . To measure the unknowable. People fear the unknown and risk, divination lets them feel like they have some certainty about the future. Myers Briggs, DISC, and all the other "personality tests" a…

That's reasonable. As I see it, even assuaging fear of the unknown seems like it could be a valuable benefit. Especially if freedom from fear helps someone to make better decisions based on the information that they have.

I see this as why humans love stories so much. An explanation with a beginning, a middle, and an end. The human condition is facing the unknown.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#686

Post by MarcusE1W »

nprateem wrote: post #66

I had an argument with a girl the other day who was adamant she wanted to know my star sign. I said "you tell me" and after 10 guesses I finally told her. She then went on to tell me what I must like etc - most of which was complete bollocks obviously. I told her her beliefs were akin to racism. Just because of when I was born she thought it was acceptable not to bother to treat me as an individual but as automatical…

I recently had a discussion about astrology and made the point that it seems all without base.

Then the discussion moved and we said maybe (no evidence here) the time of the year when your mother is pregnant could have an influence on you. Maybe the amount of sun she gets, the food she eats, the implications on her mood based on summer or winter weather and all the things she experiences that might be based on the time of the year when she is pregnant. I can't say that I think it's impossible that the baby is in some way influenced by that.

Now, if you take the stars out of astronomy and just focus on certain characteristics that are attributed to you based on the time of year you are born, mayybe, just maybe the astrologers were onto something. Just for the completely wrong reason?

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#687

Post by throw0101a »

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #539
throw0101a wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All arguments of this kind rely on some kind of shaky or dubious foundation. No, they do not. Aristotle's Argument from 'Motion': 1. Some things in the world are changing. (Observation) 2. Whatever is changing is being changed by another.[1] (Lemma 1) 3. There cannot be an infinite regress of instrumental changers.[2] (Lemma 2) 4. Therefore, there must be a changer that is not itself being changed by another. * htt…

I'm not clear on the meaning of 2 and how would it apply to something such as atomic decay? Who would be the "another" that causes an atom to decay?

See perhaps "Causality and radioactive decay":

* https://edwardfeser.blogspot.com/2014/12/causality-and-radio...

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#688

Post by baremetal »

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #503
varjag wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flag burning is a great example in fact: the outrage simply never reaches the levels it is with holy text burnings. Not to stone-the-tourists, burn-the-embassy levels of outrage: possibly (speculating here) because flag burning does not assault one's identity in a way similar to demonstrating the futility of one's beliefs. If we get to the punishments, things were clearly handed swiftly in the Old Testament. The Bibl…

> And come on, we know holy texts are full of things which are clearly wrong, in exactly the same way astrology is. The temptation to gloss over them as ornamental bits is huge, but to believers they are doctrinal. I can't think of any precise statements that are clear enough to be proved true or false. Usually holy texts have vague enough language that it's very much a case of interpretation. e.g. The Genesis creati…

>The Genesis creation story states that God created the universe in 6 days, but any attempt to demonstrate that it is false will have believers declaring that a "day" is not a precise measurement of time.

The Bible is rather clear that God doesn't measure time like humans do.

"But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day."

2 Peter 3:8

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#690

Post by throw0101a »

vacuity wrote: post #608
throw0101a wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All arguments of this kind rely on some kind of shaky or dubious foundation. No, they do not. Aristotle's Argument from 'Motion': 1. Some things in the world are changing. (Observation) 2. Whatever is changing is being changed by another.[1] (Lemma 1) 3. There cannot be an infinite regress of instrumental changers.[2] (Lemma 2) 4. Therefore, there must be a changer that is not itself being changed by another. * htt…

Even if this does point to some higher being or reality, it isn't necessarily any conception of God. Also, true randomness in fluctuations in quantum fields could refute 2, no? Also, trying to extend the notion of time to some point at infinity in the past, as if this is a proof by induction, is absurd. Mathematics are free for us to make statements about because we can start with whichever axioms we like. However, o…

For quantum-ness, see perhaps "Causality and radioactive decay":

* https://edwardfeser.blogspot.com/2014/12/causality-and-radio...

The book Aristotle's Revenge has "§5.2 Aristotle and quantum mechanics" as well per the table of contents (been a few years since I read it):

* https://www.editiones-scholasticae.de/artikel/aristotles-rev...

* https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/43277412

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