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Young people are flocking to astrology

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Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#631

Post by JumpCrisscross »

lo_zamoyski wrote: post #576

Increased interest in astrology has been noted before in societies with declining traditional religious belief and greater feelings of uncertainty. Whereas a Christian would leave his concerns about things out of his control with God, and a stoic might simply accept his powerlessness, the anxious remainder look for other ways of trying to cope. Astrology has a track record of filling this void with its fatalism, and…

The replacing traditional religion bit makes sense, since they’re both approximately the same. The increasing uncertainty is unfounded, though I suppose even modern traditional religions took hold when their parent empires were falling.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#632

Post by AlexandrB »

Alex3917 wrote: post #513
vhcr wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I'm reading it too literally, but I think the question is just badly formulated. Of course the position of the stars and planets influence people's lives, that's called the seasons. I think the same when they ask people if they think dinosaurs co-existed with humans, of course the answer is yes, as birds are dinosaurs.

> Maybe I'm reading it too literally, but I think the question is just badly formulated. It's not. The definition of astrology is literally the study of how bodies in space affect life on earth. And if you don't believe in astrology, how exactly do you explain tides?

This is silly. Astronomy and physics perfectly explain the tides. Just because there's another belief system that also claims to explain the influence of celestial bodies on the earth, doesn't mean I need to believe in it to explain the tides.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#633

Post by briandear »

varjag wrote: post #345
machina_ex_deus wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking of stereotypes, if anyone takes astrology seriously, I automatically assume they are not intelligent, irrational, and I find it impossible to take them seriously. I consider them beyond reason so I don't even try. If a person's logic and epistemology lead to him believing in astrology, it shows a deeper problem and I don't hope to have an intelligent discussion with them any more than I expect to have an int…

There is no qualitative difference between belief in astrology and any of the world's religions. Not saying you're not entitled in disregarding astrology believers but the cut-off point is completely arbitrary and dare I say irrational.

“Thou shall not kill” is far different than “Capricorns love bunnies!”

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#635

Post by kderbyma »

VoodooJuJu wrote: post #440
nprateem wrote: post #66

I had an argument with a girl the other day who was adamant she wanted to know my star sign. I said "you tell me" and after 10 guesses I finally told her. She then went on to tell me what I must like etc - most of which was complete bollocks obviously. I told her her beliefs were akin to racism. Just because of when I was born she thought it was acceptable not to bother to treat me as an individual but as automatical…

Dude, lighten up. She was playing a game with you, probably flirting. And you didn't play the game very well. Mysticism is fun, aesthetic, and filled with more questions than answers. Play the game some time, you might enjoy it. I also can't believe you actually found a way to weasel racism into the conversation. It's all so tiresome.

No it worked haha. She avoided you. I doubt you would have complained had the sign been a match

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#636

Post by vacuity »

rcme wrote: post #427
varjag wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no qualitative difference between belief in astrology and any of the world's religions. Not saying you're not entitled in disregarding astrology believers but the cut-off point is completely arbitrary and dare I say irrational.

How is believing in religion rational?

I'll subvert this and say that any religion and atheism aren't rational. Ignoring the case of supernatural compulsion, a given person has ingrained beliefs/values, as well as a personality, that drive what they accept and don't accept. Strictly trying to achieve rationality embodies the scientific method, but science can't prove or disprove anything, ultimately. Beliefs that fill the void there are beyond rationality. A belief that is heavily debunked by science can be considered irrational. Just keep in mind that science isn't perfectly capable.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#637

Post by amiga386 »

lo_zamoyski wrote: post #576

Increased interest in astrology has been noted before in societies with declining traditional religious belief and greater feelings of uncertainty. Whereas a Christian would leave his concerns about things out of his control with God, and a stoic might simply accept his powerlessness, the anxious remainder look for other ways of trying to cope. Astrology has a track record of filling this void with its fatalism, and…

"When men stop believing in God they don't believe in nothing; they believe in anything." (attributed to G. K. Chesterton)

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#638

Post by FishInTheWater »

erehweb wrote: post #623
FishInTheWater wrote: post #614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're assuming here that there has to be "real" value at the root. This isn't really true. Astrology, Tarot, the I Ching, or any other kind of divination all serve the same purpose: To provide certainty where there is none . To measure the unknowable. People fear the unknown and risk, divination lets them feel like they have some certainty about the future. Myers Briggs, DISC, and all the other "personality tests" a…

The I Ching is very ambiguous and open to interpretation, as Philip K Dock shows in The Man in The High Castle, or you can try for yourself. Whatever else it's doing, it is not providing certainty.

That's the trick. It's about feelings of certainty, not actual measurable reproduceable predictions.

Most long-lived divination methods are very vague. Anything providing concrete predictions is easily proven wrong and discredited, only the vague survives.

But people rarely take ambiguous answers for what they are, and instead interpret them into something more certain.

And this lets divination exploit all kinds of biases. On top of the regular old confirmation bias, whenever the interpretation turns out wrong, people don't write off the divination method, but assume they merely "interpreted it wrong" (and often, the vagueness means they can retcon an interpretation that is true), and worse yet, assume that now they're better at interpreting so next time it's going to be a correct prediction.

Observe how little the personality tests actually say, they're just as ambiguous.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#640

Post by flanked-evergl »

civilitty wrote: post #543
flanked-evergl wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I told her her beliefs were akin to racism. Just because of when I was born she thought it was acceptable not to bother to treat me as an individual but as automatically likely to have certain traits. If astrology was true, then ignoring astrology when interacting with some would tantamount to dehumanising them, because if it were true, that would determine who you are as an individual.

If astrology were true, that would be dehumanizing.

It is well established that certain genetic abnormalities result in severe cognitive deficiencies. You can analyse someone's genes, and without knowing anything more about the person than knowing they have three copies of chromosome 21, you can tell they have a severe mental deficiency. Is that dehumanizing? To me, that is just reality, and I think if you view reality as dehumanizing then the concept really is not that meaningful because then it is simply the default state.

Similarly, if I were to believe in astrology, I don't think I could be convinced that it is any more dehumanizing than believing genetics is real.

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