Advice From An Old Programmer • Hacker News Board

Re: Advice From An Old Programmer

#101

Post by zedshaw » Thu, Mar 08, 2012, 11:17 PM UTC

demallien wrote: post #23

"Programming as an intellectual activity is the only art form that allows you to create interactive art" Well, except for architecture. And industrial design. And pretty much most art that requires someone to interpret it (it depends on who you think you are making your art for - the person interpreting it, or the person watching the interpretation...)

Let me know when you can tell the Architect that his building needs improvement or contact a designer about their devices. Oh, and without programming.

Re: Advice From An Old Programmer

#102

Post by zedshaw » Thu, Mar 08, 2012, 11:19 PM UTC

exor wrote: post #68

The meta-topic is about disillusionment, which in this profession comes from having to learn new libraries and knowledge that you know will soon become obsolete. Reduce the risk by focusing on learning what interests you (language & industry), and accept only interesting work if possible (or create your own fascinating projects, if you're the entrepreneurial type) -- or work as a contractor, where you pick your proje…

Actually, learning all the cool new stuff that comes out is what I like the most about programming. I love taking apart new stuff, watching communities rise and fall, and dissecting the philosophies that come out of it all.

Re: Advice From An Old Programmer

#103

Post by zedshaw » Thu, Mar 08, 2012, 11:25 PM UTC

ankurdhama wrote: post #60

Which programming language you learn and use doesn't matter? Really ?? It doesn't matter for most people because they only know C/C++/C#/Java/JavaScript/Python and other similar language as they all provide same kind of "thinking technique" and you have been programming using same techniques your whole life. Try to learn languages like Lisp and Haskell and over a period of time they will change the way you think abou…

I disagree with the idea that a language changes how you think. I think a more accurate statement is:

"A programming language teaches you to think like the language's creator(s)."

If you look at it from that more anthropological lens, then you start to see how you're not necessarily learning new ways of thinking, you're learning something more like a new language around a group of people who think similar.

Once you understand that you start to see that none of these are any better or worse than the others, and thinking like you learned some secret weapon at the Church of Haskell will really just prevent you from exploring other cultures.

Re: Advice From An Old Programmer

#104

Post by commieneko » Fri, Mar 09, 2012, 12:42 AM UTC

I would disagree that programming is the only interactive art form. Drawing and painting are quite interactive when you take into consideration the interpretation that the audience must perform, and, more importantly, the back and forth of artists as they see and react to each other's work with their own work.

In that sense programming is very much like the visual arts.

For what it's worth, I've been visual artist for around 40 years and a programmer for around 35.

Re: Advice From An Old Programmer

#105

Post by roryokane » Fri, Mar 09, 2012, 2:27 AM UTC

zedshaw wrote: post #92

edw519 wrote: post #28

Thoughts from an Older Programmer... I've been programming for a very long time. Me too. So long that it's incredibly boring to me. Actually, it's more interesting to me than ever. ...I knew about 20 programming languages and could learn new ones in about a day to a week depending on how weird they were. I have a cursory knowledge of quite a few myself. But I know one really, really well. Eventually though this just…

> Please remove the sentence "They cannot." Nobody asked you.

Hacker News implicitly asked him, by having a comment box and a community that generally rewards good comments about linked articles with karma and accolades. If you don't want to change your book based on one person's feedback, that's your right. But edw519's request was reasonable. I found his request more rhetorical than an actual request of you, anyway.

Re: Advice From An Old Programmer

#106

Post by andrewflnr » Fri, Mar 09, 2012, 2:40 AM UTC

commieneko wrote: post #104

I would disagree that programming is the only interactive art form. Drawing and painting are quite interactive when you take into consideration the interpretation that the audience must perform, and, more importantly, the back and forth of artists as they see and react to each other's work with their own work. In that sense programming is very much like the visual arts. For what it's worth, I've been visual artist fo…

First thing that came to mind for me was various forms of sculpture that interact with people. Not far from where I work there's a shopping center with fountains right in the floor in the middle of a little plaza, but they turn off when people come close. I know there are other (better) examples. And that's not even getting into performing arts.

Re: Advice From An Old Programmer

#107

Post by donaq » Fri, Mar 09, 2012, 3:32 AM UTC

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #38

Edw's comment aside, I can understand being bored with programming. After you learn your way around a dozen or so different platforms, if you're not getting bored you might want to check to see if you don't have a bit of Asperger's. But he nails it when he points out that all of this programming talk is bullshit. It's just stuff to chat mindlessly about while you're not helping people. Programming is making computers…

The more you focus on the computers part, the unhappier you are going to be.

Not necessarily true. :)

Re: Advice From An Old Programmer

#108

Post by ams6110 » Fri, Mar 09, 2012, 3:36 AM UTC

pyre wrote: post #59

akrymski wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, and it always reminds me of how far Apple came with Objective-C. Microsoft and Google continually push new languages on us, and yet Apple developers used Objective-C for over 16 years just fine, and continue to push technology barriers with it. Apple instead chooses to improve supporting tools - XCode, etc. On the other hand sometimes you have to take a step backward to take 2 steps forward. Sometimes thats a pr…

> Apple developers used Objective-C for over 16 > years just fine The initial release of OS X was March 24, 2001. IIRC, ObjC was not used on MacOS 9. Unless you're talking about the creation of OS X out of NeXT (which Apple purchased in 1996), and therefore Apple employees (not just 3rd-party devs that work on the Apple platform).

Objective-C the language has existed since the 1980s. I remember reading Brad Cox's book "Object Oriented Programming, An Evolutionary Approach" in the early 1990s.

NeXT dates back to the late 1980s so if you're counting that, Objective-C has been used on the OS X lineage for over 20 years.

Re: Advice From An Old Programmer

#109

Post by ankurdhama » Fri, Mar 09, 2012, 4:38 AM UTC

zedshaw wrote: post #103

ankurdhama wrote: post #60

Which programming language you learn and use doesn't matter? Really ?? It doesn't matter for most people because they only know C/C++/C#/Java/JavaScript/Python and other similar language as they all provide same kind of "thinking technique" and you have been programming using same techniques your whole life. Try to learn languages like Lisp and Haskell and over a period of time they will change the way you think abou…

I disagree with the idea that a language changes how you think. I think a more accurate statement is: "A programming language teaches you to think like the language's creator(s)." If you look at it from that more anthropological lens, then you start to see how you're not necessarily learning new ways of thinking, you're learning something more like a new language around a group of people who think similar. Once you u…

Hmmm.. the "way to think" doesn't change as that would be like changing the way human brain works. Still some programming languages allows you to think more abstractly than others. For ex: You see a problem and in few mins you come up with an abstract solution because the language you use provide certain abstractions to help you solve problems. It is interesting discussion though and in my free time I do try to find about how human brain thinks :)

Re: Advice From An Old Programmer

#110

Post by Nick_C » Fri, Mar 09, 2012, 4:39 AM UTC

nadam wrote: post #58

chollida1 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good luck with the switch. I did this a few years ago and love it. Things you should know depending on what you're doing: Math/Finance - statistics, know stats inside and out. - differential calc and finite difference methods - Black Scholes, Programming - the R langugage - vba, if you don't know R really well then vba can be useful for modelling. VBA is approachable enough that every trader uses it and when they mov…

Thanks! Currently I am reading these books: Mark Joshi: The Concepts and Practice of Mathematical Finance Daniel Duffy: Introduction to C++ for Financial Engineers (I already know C++, but I read this because of the finance related stuff.)

I'd recommend Matlab too. Many quant shops use R or Matlab.