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Journalists should be skeptical of all sources including scientists

natesilver.substack.com

191–200 of 385 posts

Re: Journalists should be skeptical of all sources including scientists

#191
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How are journalists supposed to be productively skeptical when the vast majority of them don't receive anything remotely approaching a truly well-rounded education? Ask questions. Ask "why" a lot, don't take things at face value. Assume you're being bullshitted. You don't need to deeply undestand a subject to make someone back up what they are saying.

Again, without a baseline educational background, doing so in a way that's productive -- ie anything more than running around like a chicken with its head cut off -- is impossible. There were journalists on the COVID vaccine beat for ove a year who had never taken a Bio 101 course, let alone self-studied undergraduate level genetics. They lacked the fundamental background required to assess evidence, to know which qu…

I have often asserted that one of the reasons the lab leak hypothesis has so much backing in the wider press vs. most epidemiologists and virologists I know is that it moves the pandemic back into a realm in which they are experts.

Nate Silver is much more comfortable asserting his opinion about this than I am, because, as an infectious disease epidemiologist who primarily focuses on the stochastics of disease emergence and disease extinction, my expertise is a good two weeks after when either a zoonotic jump or a lab leak would take place. Take that for what you will.

Re: Journalists should be skeptical of all sources including scientists

#192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the past, wasn't it normal for journalists to have a particular specialization (even if that's not the _only_ thing they did), like "science reporter" or something? It is obviously impossible for every reporter to become an expert on every single topic that they might ever cover, but it is not unreasonable at all to get enough of a background on a topic that you cover regularly to be able to ask intelligent questi…

> and that reporters could never become capable of doing it I disagree for any current reporters who were selected by going to journalism school rather than by gaining expertise and then turning to journalism.

J-school in general is probably a poor criterion. Someone who has just done a bunch of reporting (and other things) isn't really less qualified to do journalism that someone with a J-school degree.

Re: Journalists should be skeptical of all sources including scientists

#194
post #159
post #10

Big question: HOW? Most journalists in the USA receive basically zero scientific education. At university I majored in two STEM subjects but also took 10 courses in Philosophy, Art, History, Journalism, and Economics. Almost no one majoring in any of those fields except Econ took more than 2-3 STEM courses, and even then there a dedicated watered down courses to ensure those people could graduate (Algebra instead of…

Ezra Klein interviewed Zeynep Tufeckci about basically this because she's had an unusually good track record for a non-specialist on lots of topics, and it really comes down to being statistically literate and putting in the work: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/04/podcasts/ezra-klein-podca...

>really comes down to being statistically literate

A lot of people writing scientific papers aren't statistically literate.

It also seems that what was considered first rate methodology even a decade ago is now considered deeply unreliable.

Re: Journalists should be skeptical of all sources including scientists

#195
post #10

Big question: HOW? Most journalists in the USA receive basically zero scientific education. At university I majored in two STEM subjects but also took 10 courses in Philosophy, Art, History, Journalism, and Economics. Almost no one majoring in any of those fields except Econ took more than 2-3 STEM courses, and even then there a dedicated watered down courses to ensure those people could graduate (Algebra instead of…

Most journalists aren't experts on the law, either. How do they report on court cases? They aren't experts on aviation safety. How do they report on airplane crashes? They aren't experts on economics. How do they report financial news? They're supposed to be experts at reporting , which works out to mean experts at finding out about topics that they don't already know about .

Based on most of the lawyers I know? Poorly.

Re: Journalists should be skeptical of all sources including scientists

#196
post #165

I, for one, am skeptical of everyone who still calls themselves a journalist.

This level of cynicism is the cause of the downfall of society.

Journalism is as necessary as government. As necessary as speech itself. Particularly in the age of perfect facsimiles of audio/photo/video evidence facilitated by AI, webs of trust and reputable sources of information will be as important as ever.

It is dangerous and wrong to insult the profession as an idea.

None of this is to say that journalism is flawless any more than government or society is flawless. But it is necessary.

Re: Journalists should be skeptical of all sources including scientists

#197
post #171
post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nate Silver has been blatantly wrong several times during COVID, has been schooled by actual scientists and is now on a personal vendetta against them. He is ready to fan the flames of science-bashing because his fragile yet enormuous ego has been hurt. That tells all that you need to know about him. (Don't believe me? He has never apologised nor shown a little bit of humility after being corrected. That's who he is.…

Provide links please.

https://twitter.com/GermsAndNumbers/status/16340874678749470...

This is a somewhat flippant take of mine, but is emblematic of a lot of Nate Silver's posting during the pandemic, which is that epidemiologists are all hyper risk adverse ninnies, and we're clearly at the end of the pandemic.

Re: Journalists should be skeptical of all sources including scientists

#198
post #10

Big question: HOW? Most journalists in the USA receive basically zero scientific education. At university I majored in two STEM subjects but also took 10 courses in Philosophy, Art, History, Journalism, and Economics. Almost no one majoring in any of those fields except Econ took more than 2-3 STEM courses, and even then there a dedicated watered down courses to ensure those people could graduate (Algebra instead of…

They don't have to shoot for perfection. The bar has sunk so low even very basic techniques can yield huge improvements in trust: 1. Report the fact that disagreement exists. Phrased differently, stop taking academics at their word when they claim there's a consensus. Do some basic web searches to find people who disagree. Get quotes from them. Stress on the word people ; not just other academics but literally anyone…

it's rare for "layman" to find true errors in papers, and you weren't a layman when you did your investigation, as you say in the article.

That said, 90% of all papers contain at least one important error that brings the conclusions into question. Note that even great papers that established long-accepted truths contain important errors, see both https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_drop_experiment#Controvers... and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_drop_experiment#Millikan's...

Similarly, the original 3D structure of DNA from W&C was actually "wrong" but I truly doubt any laymen (laypeople) could have determined that by reading the original paper (which is a paragon of clear and simple scientific reporting).

Re: Journalists should be skeptical of all sources including scientists

#199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Republicans absolutely have their own media organizations, just as likely to get the facts wrong in a way that's biased towards Republican interests. It's just that the expectations are so low for them no one is surprised when they report things with an obvious slant or just factually wrong.

> The Republicans absolutely have their own media organizations Everybody has their own media organizations. > just as likely to get the facts wrong in a way that's biased towards Republican interests. This is both the law of averages, and also not relevant even if you had a good reason for saying it. I'm not saying the Republicans are any more honest than the Democrats (god forbid.) The Democrats are generally pushi…

>The Democrats are generally pushing for the same policies as the Republicans, except in matters that split their bases; we're still living in Reagan's world.

I don't think this is true anymore. See what Lina Khan was appointed to do and is doing with the FTC. It's the first step in a long road of undoing decades of Reaganism.

https://pluralistic.net/2023/07/14/making-good-trouble/#the-...

Re: Journalists should be skeptical of all sources including scientists

#200

Everyone should be skeptical of all sources. But out of the myriad of various opinions coming from politicians, CEOs, propagandists, flat out out idiots, and everything else in between, scientists are arguably the class of truth sayers you should be least skeptical of. So while the title is technically true and I agree with the premise of the article, the article itself is wholly unnecessary at best and damaging at w…

I don't trust scientists, in particular doctors, when they're effectively bought by big pharma.

I don't care if you have ten degrees from Harvard Medical School if you also take a 7 figure paycheck from big pharma, you're a big pharma rep as far as I'm concerned.

Same with economists who shill for various groups, and so on.

I suppose I can trust astrophysicists because so far we have no evidence they've been bought by alien civilizations.

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