One writer that I followed nearly every day for the first 18 months of the pandemic was Derek Lowe at Science.org who runs a fantastic blog about drug discovery, and he has given his assessment of the origins debate a few times. The short answer is he doesn't know either unfortunately https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/origins-pandemic--...
Journalists should be skeptical of all sources including scientists
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Re: Journalists should be skeptical of all sources including scientists
#62Re: Journalists should be skeptical of all sources including scientists
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
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Silver isn't arguing for-or-against the lab leak hypothesis here. > To be clear, I’m not sure how COVID originated either. I’d “buy” the lab leak at a 50 percent likelihood [...] and sell it at 80 percent, which still leaves a lot of wiggle room for me to be persuaded one way or the other. This post is his commentary on leaked communications demonstrating that the authors of the paper themselves didn't believe the co…
I'm going to go out on a limb a suggest that he's already made up his mind and much like Fox Mulder, he just wants to believe.
Re: Journalists should be skeptical of all sources including scientists
#64When it comes to journalism, we can observe the exact same pattern. Journalists are not allowed to be skeptical because their skepticism could impact their company's ad revenue. When I worked at Huffington Post, I was not "allowed" to say anything negative about the then-President (Barack Obama). Even after the FBI was pressured to release all the Biden documents (FD-1023 - the one they were initially denying the existence of), the "reputable" news outlets remain predominantly silent. Ad revenue is a significant factor in this silence. They are protecting their own interests.
Re: Journalists should be skeptical of all sources including scientists
#65Big question: HOW? Most journalists in the USA receive basically zero scientific education. At university I majored in two STEM subjects but also took 10 courses in Philosophy, Art, History, Journalism, and Economics. Almost no one majoring in any of those fields except Econ took more than 2-3 STEM courses, and even then there a dedicated watered down courses to ensure those people could graduate (Algebra instead of…
1. Report the fact that disagreement exists. Phrased differently, stop taking academics at their word when they claim there's a consensus. Do some basic web searches to find people who disagree. Get quotes from them. Stress on the word people; not just other academics but literally anyone disagreeing on scientific grounds eliminates the claim of consensus. Bloggers are fine.
2. READ the papers. Journalists never do this. I cannot express how frequently you can spot scientific fraud by just reading the underlying papers, even as a layman. If you lack expertise maybe you'll miss 90% of the tricks but catching 10% of them is still sufficient to notice something is wrong, and often you don't need any special training. Here are some of my own investigations of bad papers - it's often obvious and most of it doesn't require expertise to spot.
https://blog.plan99.net/did-russian-bots-impact-brexit-ad66f...
https://blog.plan99.net/fake-science-part-ii-bots-that-are-n...
3. Hold sources to account when it's proven that they were misleading you. Report on bad behavior to discourage it next time.
4. Be willing to report stories dug up by other people, even when they make Team University look bad. Note how the reporting Silver refers to hasn't been covered by legacy media outlets even though you don't need to be a scientist to understand what they're saying and how damning it is.
In reality this stuff is easy. Nobody is asking for the NYT to engage in professional peer review of newly published papers. Just not assuming anything a professor says is gospel truth would be a good start, but there seems little chance of that happening :( Journalists depend so heavily on academics for rent-a-quote services and a constant flow of stories that getting tough would be biting the hand that feeds them.
Re: Journalists should be skeptical of all sources including scientists
#66I respect this position on principal, but I also forget like we are equally glossing over the context in this specific case. In 2020, the lab-leak theory was specifically being promoted by people who were advancing the idea that Covid was a) an engineered bio-weapon b) required a national security response in lieu of a medical one. But if we really want to look back at 2020-2021, there were MUCH more egregious exampl…
If anyone posited alternate origins except what was the accepted leading thought of the time, they were ostracized across many segments of society. It became one of the things you couldn't discuss publicly.
Many topics became like this during covid including your mention of school closures. Weird time.
Re: Journalists should be skeptical of all sources including scientists
#67Big question: HOW? Most journalists in the USA receive basically zero scientific education. At university I majored in two STEM subjects but also took 10 courses in Philosophy, Art, History, Journalism, and Economics. Almost no one majoring in any of those fields except Econ took more than 2-3 STEM courses, and even then there a dedicated watered down courses to ensure those people could graduate (Algebra instead of…
Maybe start there.
Re: Journalists should be skeptical of all sources including scientists
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
The answer is more people with a background in STEM should go into journalism. Sadly, that sort of specialization is expensive and the public's willingness to spend on news seems to have gone down.
YouTube and Medium are awash with scientists doing journalism- there’s plenty of supply. Maybe the answer is that people without a STEM background should get out of science journalism? The question mark is genuine- would this be a bad thing for some reason? Not that scientist journalists don’t also make mistakes of course- I’ve seen plenty, usually due to covering topics outside their own specialty.
Re: Journalists should be skeptical of all sources including scientists
#69One thing that dulls my interest in this debate is my doubt that it will ever get “resolved”. We dont have sequence samples at the time of covids origin. China is never going to cooperate on giving more circumstantial evidence. So we cant really do any phylogenetic or epidemiological analysis at the level of spatial precision that this would require. The data is extremely fuzzy where it needs to be sharp. In my opini…
Was there a time when the lab leak theory had the same credibility as it being naturally occurring in poor unsanitary market conditions? I’d personally say no, but for the sake of argument, forgetting basic tenants like “the simplest explanation is more likely the correct one”, let’s say that early on, both had little measurable credibility.
Now though, early contact tracing shows the earliest contractions are clustered to the market, and that the virus leaped across species multiple times during early phase. This is not a coincidence and it is also not what we’d expect from a lab leak.
The lab leak theory is conspiracy theory. Full stop.
Re: Journalists should be skeptical of all sources including scientists
#70It is astonishing how many people are saying that Nate Silver must be wrong here, because he is going "against the experts". The damning comments are those made by the experts! But, because the disliked Nate Silver is involved, clearly the only fault is in the reporting of the comments. This hagiography of anyone who claims to be a credentialed expert is contrary to everything Hacker News believed in a decade ago. Ap…
That doesn't mean he's wrong of course but this is a subject where right now everything is conjecture and hard proof may never be found. So cautious restraint is needed before jumping to any conclusions.