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90s Internet: When 20 hours online triggered an email from my ISP’s president

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Re: 90s Internet: When 20 hours online triggered an email from my ISP’s president

#21
post #19
post #9

If they genuinely could tell it was not being actively used (or really, even if they wanted to limit to x hours whether used or not and that's what's going on here) why not just disconnect it, why resort to emailing the user? It sort of implies that's not possible, but really? I can't imagine how you could be doing the routing, monitoring the connection, and yet unable to terminate it?

Some of us had our server detect when the connection was dropped for any reason and would autoconnect back in.

And the ISP monitoring would be sophisticated enough to know that was what you were doing, but again, still not to disconnect you again (or not quickly enough, or something)?

Re: 90s Internet: When 20 hours online triggered an email from my ISP’s president

#22
post #14
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These days I can do terabytes in an afternoon on research and nobody bats an eye. Except Comcast and the other shitty ISPs (including mobile carriers) which implement data caps, despite there being no technical reason for it*. At least back in the day there was an actual limit to the number of active simultaneous connections an ISP can handle. * even for mobile, data caps don't make much sense, as they are monthly…

There are some good reasons for data caps on mobile carriers. The last mile is a shared access medium, and the carriers only have so much spectrum licensed to them. All mobile carriers are offering plans with soft caps, meaning you may be derated to a lower speed after a known amount of data and (usually) there are bandwidth limitations in your area.

I disagree.

The last mile is very local, limited to a single cell, whose size depends on the planned capacity (cells are smaller in cities). Congestion is therefore limited to specific cells. Furthermore, congestion is often very temporary, limited to peak hours or special events. A congestion event could last just minutes.

A global monthly data cap doesn't actually address congestion very well. You can still have a sudden influx of users with available quota overload a cell, meaning they aren't getting the service they paid for as they are getting degraded speeds. On the other hand, someone who used up all their monthly quota is still getting no or degraded service (or is charged overage fees) despite being on a cell with lots of available capacity - in this case both energy and spectrum is wasted because there is an idle cell that's not being used to its full capacity despite there being demand for it.

> soft caps

Soft caps are, at least in some carriers, either non-existent (you get a hard block or are charged insane overage fees) or are throttled to near-unusable speeds. Furthermore, even if soft caps are implemented, they are still global (and reset monthly) as opposed to being limited to congested areas.

The real reason for data caps isn't network congestion but to scare people into paying for more than they really need (which conveniently resets every month, so they can't accumulate their allowance either) and/or charge them huge overage fees if they dare exceed their allowance. If this was purely about congestion control and efficient spectrum usage, there are better ways such as the one I described in my original comment.

Unfortunately in an oligopoly controlled by a handful of equally-mediocre players who have no incentive (nor capability - there is no engineering culture to enable innovation) to compete with each other, there is no feasible way to fix this.

Re: 90s Internet: When 20 hours online triggered an email from my ISP’s president

#23
As an small ISP owner in the 90s, there was no way to win. Incoming phone lines were a considerable hunk of your expenses so you wanted to have enough available at peak time in the evenings to not have busy signals. Smaller POPs may have only had a couple dozen phone lines. For the very vast majority of subscriber, they'd dial up for 2-6 hours, browse the web and whatnot, and disconnect. I hated the "unlimited" thing at the time because it was so shady for reasons like this. But, if you tried to sell "X hours per month" people really didn't like knowing they were on the clock, and if you tried to market it as "unmetered" then you got nailed by people saying "well what's the difference between unmetered and unlimited??" (I tried both). In retrospect I probably should've just played along with "unlimited" and fired/ran off my customers who kept connections nailed up for 20 hours a day.

Re: 90s Internet: When 20 hours online triggered an email from my ISP’s president

#24
post #17

Hah yeah I remember my dad getting an e-mail like that back in like 1996. We were paying for an unlimited connection, and then they tried to tell us that if we wanted to be connected for more than 4 hours/day, we'd have to upgrade to a business account that was like 4x the price. My dad told them to pound sand and we switched ISPs. Pretty sure between 1995 and 1997, we switched dialup ISPs like 4 times because each t…

Except now you're limited to 2 TB/mo with no alternatives.

I remember my 56k modem running at less than half the advertised speed, and having to pay by the minute for the privilege, and that the phone number originally being "local rate" shifting into "lo-call rate" as actual local calls became cheaper.

2 TB would have taken me nearly 16 years, and cost as much as a house.

Re: 90s Internet: When 20 hours online triggered an email from my ISP’s president

#25

Hah yeah I remember my dad getting an e-mail like that back in like 1996. We were paying for an unlimited connection, and then they tried to tell us that if we wanted to be connected for more than 4 hours/day, we'd have to upgrade to a business account that was like 4x the price. My dad told them to pound sand and we switched ISPs. Pretty sure between 1995 and 1997, we switched dialup ISPs like 4 times because each t…

In the UK in the early 90s we had to pay

1) The ISP a monthly charge

2) The ISP a per-minute charge (these were things like cix, compuserve, aol, etc)

3) the phone company a per-minute charge

Later we had ISPs that didn't have a per-minute charge (Demon and the like), so it was just the monthly charge and the per minute charge to the phone company. Even later than that ISPs which were just a per-minute charge to the phone company came along. In the late 90s I think the phone company per minute charge was about 4p/minute in the day, so for anyone in the UK that would be about 9p per minute today, or if you ran your modem full pelt, about 36p per Megabyte.

Towards the late 90s you could have a flat fee phone charge, then dsl and cable came along.

Re: 90s Internet: When 20 hours online triggered an email from my ISP’s president

#26
This made me curious about setting up a landline again at my house (cause those work even in blackouts) and there are still a few options

My favorite by far is basicISP:

https://www.basicisp.net/About/BasicServices.aspx

This is a time capsule of a website (and company for that matter!) that apparently is still actively maintained!

Re: 90s Internet: When 20 hours online triggered an email from my ISP’s president

#27
I almost missed my first (and most important) job offer in the summer of 2000 because I was on dial-up almost 24 hours a day and my phone was constantly busy. I applied for a new job and left my home phone number which was also my dialup line. Thankfully my new boss was able to finally get through, and my career in tech was born!

And it wasn't even 56K because our phone lines were crap. I would get about 28K on a good day.

Re: 90s Internet: When 20 hours online triggered an email from my ISP’s president

#28
> "I'm not revisiting an issue that you may have experienced in 1998 with Networks," Fourney wrote. "Times are dramatically different in 2023 than they were in 1998. Not sure why anyone would have an interest in revisiting 28K dialup days of 1998."

Bleh, what a boring response from the CEO. It's always interesting to look back and where we were to appreciate how far we've come. Also, there's the nostalgia of 'simple times'.

Re: 90s Internet: When 20 hours online triggered an email from my ISP’s president

#29

I worked for a dial up ISP as a network engineer around the same time frame mentioned in the article. A standing instruction was to, as time allowed, manually look at usage across members and force resets on any long standing connections! Mainly this was because it was a small company and this freed up the number of possible incoming connections to avoid busy signals. I was very junior and cringe at how naively unawa…

It's not necessarily unethical - it's a problem of resource allocation under constraints.

You can either let the person who stays connected for weeks stick around, or free up space for less frequent users who are also paying customers.

Re: 90s Internet: When 20 hours online triggered an email from my ISP’s president

#30
post #3

Before freeserv existed in the UK we didn't have a flat rate and a 800 number you could call into, you dialed a local number and paid by the minute, mum limited me to 2 hours a day and the she would take the RJ9 cable to enforce it. One afternoon at lunch break at school I went down to the local elections store and used 2 days worth of lunch money to buy a secret RJ9. After mum went to bed I'd sneak out my cable and…

Been there, done that. I was "temporarily" staying at my parents after a relationship had fallen through. £375 one month on dialup with Pipex.

The insult was followed no less than 3 days later with a similarly large electricity bill for the skip dived fully stacked Sun 1000E and disk array I was running 24/7 as a workstation. Stupid machine - had to sleep with ear plugs in.

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