Study finds billions of nanoplastics released when microwaving containers • Hacker News Board

Re: Study finds billions of nanoplastics released when microwaving containers

#121

Post by harshreality » Fri, Jul 21, 2023, 7:55 AM UTC

Plenty of glass and ceramic containers are available, but they almost all have plastic lids, which isn't great if food is reheating and the water's condensing on the plastic and dripping back into the food.

What's the status of silicone? Silicone container covers are available, which won't seal but will work to prevent spatter.

Since I don't have any of those yet, and all my glass or ceramic containers have plastic lids, I've been avoiding my microwave. Instead, I've steam-reheated ceramic and glass food containers, uncovered, in a pressure cooker. It's not as quick, but there's little to no plastic exposure (except the silicone sealing ring, if that leaches microplastics into the steam, but it's still probably vastly less than reheating with a plastic lid on) and it heats more evenly too.

Re: Study finds billions of nanoplastics released when microwaving containers

#122

Post by chrisco255 » Fri, Jul 21, 2023, 7:56 AM UTC

autoexec wrote: post #114

chrisco255 wrote: post #98

I'm one of the most skeptical people when it comes to these types of claims. I think the effects are being exaggerated. However, I've recently begun to replace all plastic containers and dishware from my kitchen with stainless steel and glass. Drinks taste better in glass anyways, and steel is a good non-fragile alternative. And I cook in cast iron. It's almost impossible to avoid plastic, and I'm not religious about…

Yeah, this is one of those cases where I think it's better to take the cautious route. Now that we know we're ingesting massive amounts of plastics and it's been found in every human organ, and in blood, and in breast milk, etc I think it's probably a good idea to take what steps we can to cut down on it until things are more clear about the harms. Avoiding this exposure will be easy for me, because I was never very…

Cast iron is not bad at all to clean if you have a chain link steel scrubber (The Lodge sells these, other companies too). Ideally you scrub it when the pan is still warm. If you've let something sit in there that hardens, like cheese, you may have to let it soak in some warm water for a bit and apply elbow grease with the scrubber. You can even fill it with water and set it on the stove to warm the water up a bit to break down anything that's hardened.

Most of the foods I cook are basic meats and veggies so it's usually quite easy to clean for those.

Re: Study finds billions of nanoplastics released when microwaving containers

#123

Post by tokamak-teapot » Fri, Jul 21, 2023, 8:01 AM UTC

harshreality wrote: post #121

Plenty of glass and ceramic containers are available, but they almost all have plastic lids, which isn't great if food is reheating and the water's condensing on the plastic and dripping back into the food. What's the status of silicone? Silicone container covers are available, which won't seal but will work to prevent spatter. Since I don't have any of those yet, and all my glass or ceramic containers have plastic l…

I only use the plastic lids (on the glass containers) for storage. If I want to heat the container, I just use a plate or bowl as lid.

Re: Study finds billions of nanoplastics released when microwaving containers

#124

Post by RGamma » Fri, Jul 21, 2023, 8:01 AM UTC

Panzer04 wrote: post #94

parentheses wrote: post #69

I absolutely despise microwaves. It comes from a (seemingly) irrational fear of my dad's - formerly a trained chemist, but also just a smart guy. 1. I feel that as with many products, microwaves are also maximized for perceived customer happiness - this means food hot ASAP. So, they're probably pushing out the legal maximum of energy in microwave form. "Better" microwaves are probably worse for this. 2. I notice a di…

What's wrong with microwaves? Aside from their mechanism of heating, what do they do differently to food to anything else? Arguably they get the outsides of some foods much hotter than otherwise, but I'm not sure how true that might really be - we regularly cook loads of other foods at very high temperatures in ovens or pans.

Presumably it's a psychological phenomenon similar to the 5G mind control crowd. Overshooting fear of the unknown.

Re: Study finds billions of nanoplastics released when microwaving containers

#125

Post by stubish » Fri, Jul 21, 2023, 8:02 AM UTC

parentheses wrote: post #62

Aurornis wrote: post #35

> Rather than introduce just the number of particles released by one container, the researchers instead exposed the cells to particle concentrations that infants and toddlers might accumulate over days or from multiple sources. > After two days, just 23% of kidney cells exposed to the highest concentrations had managed to survive So they used concentrations that they believe toddlers might accumulate over two days an…

The article is only presenting that: 1. nano/microplastics kill kidney cells in a lab environment 2. nano/microplastics come from microwaving containers Regardless of whether you agree with the conclusion _you_ are drawing from reading the article, the article is saying those things. In order to make a real-world-ish experiment, we'd have to start experimenting on children. I feel that while you're expressing outrage…

The article does state though that 'Many studies, including ours, are demonstrating that the toxicity of micro- and nanoplastics is highly linked to the level of exposure'. But it doesn't provide evidence that the amount being ingested is enough to cause harm, so the bit about killing kidney cells seems to be fear mongering (I'm sure there are lots of things babies eat that would kill kidney cells if you instead injected them). What would be more interesting if there was detectable levels of microplastics in blood streams, or how the levels compare to things already studied such as bottled water.

Re: Study finds billions of nanoplastics released when microwaving containers

#126

Post by Filligree » Fri, Jul 21, 2023, 8:05 AM UTC

parentheses wrote: post #69

I absolutely despise microwaves. It comes from a (seemingly) irrational fear of my dad's - formerly a trained chemist, but also just a smart guy. 1. I feel that as with many products, microwaves are also maximized for perceived customer happiness - this means food hot ASAP. So, they're probably pushing out the legal maximum of energy in microwave form. "Better" microwaves are probably worse for this. 2. I notice a di…

Re. 2, cooking meat in the microwave almost never burns it. This is as opposed to the oven, where you’re always going to have a seared surface.

A lot of people find that tasty, and it certainly adds a lot of tastes. However, searing the meat always adds carcinogens, so…

The safest method is probably boiling.

Re: Study finds billions of nanoplastics released when microwaving containers

#127

Post by calf » Fri, Jul 21, 2023, 8:10 AM UTC

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #88

userbinator wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly were those studies on? Those bags are almost certainly polyethyelene without any additives, which is safe and has been in widespread use for almost a century. Petroleum jelly is far more reactive than PE, although it's substantially the same chemical structure, yet most of us regularly use it on our skin. If the biggest concern about sous vide is the plastic, then I think that's a very strong argument fo…

>Petroleum jelly [...] most of us regularly use it on our skin. I think I've used it maybe a handful of times in my whole life; once a year at the very most. Do you mind expanding on your statement here?

My highschool science teacher told use Vaseline was an excellent moisturizer, she said to put in on after showering, when your skin is moist, for best effect.

Re: Study finds billions of nanoplastics released when microwaving containers

#128

Post by epolanski » Fri, Jul 21, 2023, 8:12 AM UTC

chrisco255 wrote: post #98

I'm one of the most skeptical people when it comes to these types of claims. I think the effects are being exaggerated. However, I've recently begun to replace all plastic containers and dishware from my kitchen with stainless steel and glass. Drinks taste better in glass anyways, and steel is a good non-fragile alternative. And I cook in cast iron. It's almost impossible to avoid plastic, and I'm not religious about…

> I think the effects are being exaggerated.

Are they?

The article points out that effects of nanoplastics on humans are still unclear.

Re: Study finds billions of nanoplastics released when microwaving containers

#129

Post by epolanski » Fri, Jul 21, 2023, 8:13 AM UTC

autoexec wrote: post #114

chrisco255 wrote: post #98

I'm one of the most skeptical people when it comes to these types of claims. I think the effects are being exaggerated. However, I've recently begun to replace all plastic containers and dishware from my kitchen with stainless steel and glass. Drinks taste better in glass anyways, and steel is a good non-fragile alternative. And I cook in cast iron. It's almost impossible to avoid plastic, and I'm not religious about…

Yeah, this is one of those cases where I think it's better to take the cautious route. Now that we know we're ingesting massive amounts of plastics and it's been found in every human organ, and in blood, and in breast milk, etc I think it's probably a good idea to take what steps we can to cut down on it until things are more clear about the harms. Avoiding this exposure will be easy for me, because I was never very…

> Avoiding this exposure will be easy for me, because I was never very comfortable microwaving plastic.

Maybe this specific one, but microplastics are in everything you eat and drink, the presented article merely points out that this specific use case produces lost of micro plastics which are ingested by children.

Re: Study finds billions of nanoplastics released when microwaving containers

#130

Post by archi42 » Fri, Jul 21, 2023, 8:17 AM UTC

parentheses wrote: post #69

I absolutely despise microwaves. It comes from a (seemingly) irrational fear of my dad's - formerly a trained chemist, but also just a smart guy. 1. I feel that as with many products, microwaves are also maximized for perceived customer happiness - this means food hot ASAP. So, they're probably pushing out the legal maximum of energy in microwave form. "Better" microwaves are probably worse for this. 2. I notice a di…

> [...] all plastics impart a taste to water once the water has been sitting for some time. I imagine heat speeds up this process. [...]

I feel the same. Water from most plastic bottles tastes very different from the same brand & "type" in a glass bottle. Thinking about this, I should eventually do some experiments (e.g. ABX and fully blind). Especially since summer heat should impact this during transport.

For plastic dishes, I avoid these for hot(!) foods as well. At least my SO's cheap plastic outdoor dishes add some flavour. Though for fridge storage or cold foods I never noticed the plastic flavour. I still prefer glassware for practical reasons (except weight) and (highly subjective) fell like it's just nicer, but e.g. at BBQs I (luckily!) nothing ever tasted like plastic only because a salad was in a plastic bowl; same for use-once plastic stuff used at some events, luckily the short contact never contaminated the taste (which means this could be placebo except for really bad plastic ware!).

Just out of curiosity: Do you also taste milk changing its taste long before others notice? Maybe we have a similar sensitivity that's also affecting "plastic flavour"?

As for hot spots in the microwave, that's just a drawback of the tech imho (or our old-ish, non-inverter microwave with a poor radiation pattern), and except for reducing these (70% and stirring), I live with that. Though we basically never prepare raw food in the microwave, only reheat leftovers or boil water/milk. So actual food safety is less an issue for us. On especially lazy days (and with highly unevenly heating food like yesterdays home-made lasagna) I even skip the cold parts and put them in the microwave again; I'm pretty sure this is safe.