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Study finds billions of nanoplastics released when microwaving containers

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Re: Study finds billions of nanoplastics released when microwaving containers

#111

Post by cowl »

parentheses wrote: post #62
Aurornis wrote: post #35

> Rather than introduce just the number of particles released by one container, the researchers instead exposed the cells to particle concentrations that infants and toddlers might accumulate over days or from multiple sources. > After two days, just 23% of kidney cells exposed to the highest concentrations had managed to survive So they used concentrations that they believe toddlers might accumulate over two days an…

The article is only presenting that: 1. nano/microplastics kill kidney cells in a lab environment 2. nano/microplastics come from microwaving containers Regardless of whether you agree with the conclusion _you_ are drawing from reading the article, the article is saying those things. In order to make a real-world-ish experiment, we'd have to start experimenting on children. I feel that while you're expressing outrage…

In fact no. The parent comment is right in emphasizing the "exposure to concentrations equivalent to accumulations over several days and sources".

So while your point 1. is technically true, it comes with the caveat of heavy concentrations.

We know of thousands of "factors" that become dangerous or toxic in big concentrations but are innocuous or even beneficial in small doses. I'm not saying that plastic is either of these but to leave out the dose concentration is clearly misrepresenting from your part.

So I don't know if you haven't read the article till the end (because this caveat of the concentration comes later after the sensational part you emphasized) or you are purposely trying to mislead others.

The discrepancy of their result ("three-quarters of cultured embryonic kidney cells had died") with reality also clearly points to something very wrong with this study. That high level of cell mortality is not observed anywhere in reality.

Re: Study finds billions of nanoplastics released when microwaving containers

#112

Post by somenameforme »

pkdpic wrote: post #3

> Experiments have shown that microwaving plastic baby food containers available on the shelves of U.S. stores can release huge numbers of plastic particles — in some cases, more than 2 billion nanoplastics and 4 million microplastics for every square centimeter of container. > After two days, just 23% of kidney cells exposed to the highest concentrations had managed to survive — a much higher mortality rate than tha…

I think one of the biggest issues in society today is that so much is changing so quickly, on a species level scale, that it's phenomenally difficult to isolate cause and effect for any thing that requires more than a 6 month controlled trial to show up on. It's not like you can just do an observational study on families of children who were not exposed to microplastics vs those who were, because the former group doesn't exist. And even if it did, what if the effect is something like leaded fuel, where it's only really measurable, and indirectly at that on a population level sample, decades after exposure?

Just think about how absurdly much has changed in the past 30 years in terms of consumption and lifestyle. Trying to figure out what might even possibly be causing something is just going to leave you with an endless series of "The evidence is inadequate to accept or reject a causal relationship between [a] and [b]."

Re: Study finds billions of nanoplastics released when microwaving containers

#113

Post by Dylan16807 »

parentheses wrote: post #69

I absolutely despise microwaves. It comes from a (seemingly) irrational fear of my dad's - formerly a trained chemist, but also just a smart guy. 1. I feel that as with many products, microwaves are also maximized for perceived customer happiness - this means food hot ASAP. So, they're probably pushing out the legal maximum of energy in microwave form. "Better" microwaves are probably worse for this. 2. I notice a di…

There's no legal limit, but lower power will help the heat even out better, so go for it.

Are you comparing those meats to other ways of heating that don't get the surface particularly hot?

Re: Study finds billions of nanoplastics released when microwaving containers

#114

Post by autoexec »

chrisco255 wrote: post #98

I'm one of the most skeptical people when it comes to these types of claims. I think the effects are being exaggerated. However, I've recently begun to replace all plastic containers and dishware from my kitchen with stainless steel and glass. Drinks taste better in glass anyways, and steel is a good non-fragile alternative. And I cook in cast iron. It's almost impossible to avoid plastic, and I'm not religious about…

Yeah, this is one of those cases where I think it's better to take the cautious route. Now that we know we're ingesting massive amounts of plastics and it's been found in every human organ, and in blood, and in breast milk, etc I think it's probably a good idea to take what steps we can to cut down on it until things are more clear about the harms.

Avoiding this exposure will be easy for me, because I was never very comfortable microwaving plastic. I've seen companies lie about their stuff being "microwave safe" too many times.

I thought cast iron would be too much work and got a decent carbon steel pan to replace the non-stick crap I was always replacing, and I don't mind the extra care. I'm not sure that cast iron would take any more effort than what I'm doing now.

Re: Study finds billions of nanoplastics released when microwaving containers

#115

Post by teekert »

balaji1 wrote: post #56
Aurornis wrote: post #35

> Rather than introduce just the number of particles released by one container, the researchers instead exposed the cells to particle concentrations that infants and toddlers might accumulate over days or from multiple sources. > After two days, just 23% of kidney cells exposed to the highest concentrations had managed to survive So they used concentrations that they believe toddlers might accumulate over two days an…

> we’re not seeing toddlers around the world have kidney problems is it possible that then we don't fully understand the resilience of the human body? It is certainly possible, when the article can state that: > the health effects of consuming micro- and nanoplastics remain unclear

We are seeing a steady increase in childhood cancer [0] and our male population now has half the sperm count the same population had in 70s [1].

[0]: https://www.mja.com.au/journal/2020/212/3/incidence-childhoo...

[1]: https://backreaction.blogspot.com/2022/11/why-are-male-testo...

Re: Study finds billions of nanoplastics released when microwaving containers

#116

Post by Semaphor »

chrisco255 wrote: post #98

I'm one of the most skeptical people when it comes to these types of claims. I think the effects are being exaggerated. However, I've recently begun to replace all plastic containers and dishware from my kitchen with stainless steel and glass. Drinks taste better in glass anyways, and steel is a good non-fragile alternative. And I cook in cast iron. It's almost impossible to avoid plastic, and I'm not religious about…

Same. I have some plastic containers left, but I make sure only cold food goes in there. Otherwise, SS/Glass cups, SS mixing and salad bowls, glass storage containers, SS sieves, ceramic coated pans.

Re: Study finds billions of nanoplastics released when microwaving containers

#117

Post by Filligree »

tohnjitor wrote: post #74
userbinator wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you had better get working on that cabin in the woods. ...where you use a wood stove and inhale far more proven carcinogens instead?

Surely the cabin has a chimney.

Chimneys cut it down from “catastrophic” to “tolerable”. That pollution sensor will still be at red.

Re: Study finds billions of nanoplastics released when microwaving containers

#119

Post by pbmonster »

bordercases wrote: post #43
rcme wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think plastic is safe and avoid it whenever possible, but an argument for its safety is that it has been widely used for a hundred years and we still don't have many direct causal links between plastic and health problems.

They would be hard to establish if you didn't have data on the kinds of health problems that would only show up post-plastic.

Why do you think that?

If microplastics is a problem, I would expect studies to have shown up linking microplastics to cancer in the elderly, or to dementia, or heart disease, or any of the other very widely spread health issues that could arise after decades of exposure in a population.

I'm not an expert, but wouldn't you need just a scalpel, a microscope and lots of donated tissue samples?

Re: Study finds billions of nanoplastics released when microwaving containers

#120

Post by Vecr »

an_aparallel wrote: post #93
TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, really? Like baby bottle nipples?

Yeah - can you provide some more info about this? i use silcon trays - and i always thought they were too good to be true tbh

Silicone is plastic. Or at least a combination of synthetic polymers and probably dyes, if you don't agree with the definition of "plastic".
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