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Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

vipshek.com

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Re: Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

#181

Post by Eddy_Viscosity2 »

karpierz wrote: post #177
GuB-42 wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would put that in the introvert spectrum. Complaining about "shallow" interactions is, I think, a big telltale sign of introversion. I wouldn't call deep conversations a form of socializing, like being alone, this is a bubble, except this time, there are several people in the bubble. Extroverts don't like bubbles, and I am sure deep conversations are draining to them (I am not one, so it is just a guess), and they…

To add to this, I'd say that when people say "deep conversation", they generally mean "comfortable conversation". A lot of conversations that I've heard described as "deep" are superficial discussions of philosophy/politics (see most of HN) or jargon-filled discussions of specific nerddoms that people are interested in.

As an introvert, I would say there is a difference. Deep here is in the eye of the beholder and I agree with idea that a deep conservation doesn't drain me and can in fact be energizing. Comfortable conversations are more on the fun and light sight but they can be an drain on my limited social energy reserves. I like them, but I need recovery time. The 'deep' part may mean different things to different people but to me its one where knowledgeable people are discussing aspects of that knowledge at a, well, deeper level than most conservations allow for.

Re: Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

#182

Post by gehwartzen »

hightrix wrote: post #54
vipshek wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did briefly discuss this idea of interactions "draining energy" in the post here: https://www.vipshek.com/blog/interaction#balance-not-batteri... . I understand that the idea of draining vs. charging works for some people, but I always found this concept even more baffling. For me, when I've been in solitude for a while, I feel a restless desire to go out and interact with people. When I'm in that lonely state, I f…

As an anecdote, I am always drained by social interaction and always recharged by solitude. I can be home alone all week and still dread going out to a party if I’m not in the mood. I’m a very social person, but it is still draining. I have never felt so alone that I need social interaction, but I have frequently felt a strong need to be alone. But I’m also like the parent in that I’ve lead large teams, had greater i…

I personally like having friends over but we all just kind of do our own thing\ sharing snacks. Having people in my space feels energizing and of course if there's something interesting on someone's mind we talk about it. But having to fill every minute with conversation to me is the draining part.

Re: Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

#183

Post by bmitc »

jmye wrote: post #178
bmitc wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what you mean by a value judgement. But these things are obviously personal, broad, statistical, and not absolute. Personality types are a thing though, and some types are more prone to certain behaviors and feelings than others. Doesn't mean it's always that way or better or worse. Probably what's being re-hit upon is that there's more to personality types than introvert and extrovert.

It’s the notion that “extroverts” aren’t capable of holding deep, intellectual conversations or that “introverts” are more prone to them. I accept that may not have been your intent, but it’s how I read that comment. I fully agree with the second thing you said.

To be fair, I said "not willing" and not "not capable". There was probably a hint of bias coming from an introvert and personality type that doesn't generally feel heard.

But I think the more broad and modern personality models beyond introvert/extrovert are better for this rather than the broad strokes I painted with.

Re: Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

#184

Post by lbrito »

karpierz wrote: post #177
GuB-42 wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would put that in the introvert spectrum. Complaining about "shallow" interactions is, I think, a big telltale sign of introversion. I wouldn't call deep conversations a form of socializing, like being alone, this is a bubble, except this time, there are several people in the bubble. Extroverts don't like bubbles, and I am sure deep conversations are draining to them (I am not one, so it is just a guess), and they…

To add to this, I'd say that when people say "deep conversation", they generally mean "comfortable conversation". A lot of conversations that I've heard described as "deep" are superficial discussions of philosophy/politics (see most of HN) or jargon-filled discussions of specific nerddoms that people are interested in.

No, quite the opposite.

Technical discussions are fine, but more personal things are probably what the parent comment is going for. I can totally see an extrovert being annoyed and uncomfortable with the "realness" of conversations that only have place within very small groups.

Re: Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

#185

Post by heyjamesknight »

michaelteter wrote: post #144

One dimension often missing from these (intro/extro-vert) discussions is the matter of what kind of people and what circumstance the interactions involve. Put me in a large group of people I have little in common with or with whom I have no interest in -- but am forced to socialize with -- and I'm used up in minutes. But with people I can somewhat identify with, and in a situation which offers something for me, and I…

That's because introversion/extroversion is really only one single axis. The Big 5 personality index includes 4 other axes: agreeableness, openness, conscientiousness, and neuroticism.

What you're discussing is only partially described by extroversion. Highly agreeable extroverts may not enjoy large group discussions because of the inherent conflict present when multiple people express opinions. Highly conscientious and low opennness introverts may not even like 1:1 discussions because they're so very sure that their existing opinions are the correct ones.

Humans are really bad at multi-axis categorization. We like things to be good/evil, black/white, etc. But anything worth categorizing almost certainly needs to be categorized across multiple indices.

Re: Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

#186

Post by sublinear »

thomastjeffery wrote: post #97
leonhard wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any advice on how to develop such skills in charm and charisma?

There are two ways to be charismatic: 1. Emulate charismatic behaviors. 2. Create intentional social space for those around you. #1 is what I would call "politeness" or "charm". There's a strictly traditional (conservative/Victorian, though I'm coming from a western perspective) way to do it, but every branch of counterculture has effectively created it's own version. I would count everything from chivalry to fashion…

> Emulate charismatic behaviors.

This is circular

Re: Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

#187

Post by thomastjeffery »

sublinear wrote: post #186
thomastjeffery wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two ways to be charismatic: 1. Emulate charismatic behaviors. 2. Create intentional social space for those around you. #1 is what I would call "politeness" or "charm". There's a strictly traditional (conservative/Victorian, though I'm coming from a western perspective) way to do it, but every branch of counterculture has effectively created it's own version. I would count everything from chivalry to fashion…

> Emulate charismatic behaviors. This is circular

It would be if it were isolated to a single person, but we're talking about a collection of many individuals.

Re: Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

#188

Post by polishdude20 »

michaelteter wrote: post #144

One dimension often missing from these (intro/extro-vert) discussions is the matter of what kind of people and what circumstance the interactions involve. Put me in a large group of people I have little in common with or with whom I have no interest in -- but am forced to socialize with -- and I'm used up in minutes. But with people I can somewhat identify with, and in a situation which offers something for me, and I…

To add to that, if I need to support the conversation moat of the time and feel like it's work just keeping it flowing because the other person just doesn't have an interest in me or what I'm saying, that drains me.

Re: Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

#189

Post by thomasfromcdnjs »

TrispusAttucks wrote: post #140
thomasfromcdnjs wrote: post #138

I'm not convinced that ones identity can be described as an introvert or extrovert. Regardless of what I read or what people I trust tell me. I think you can _feel_ "introverted" or "extroverted" sometimes. Not a topic that overly bother me, I personally find it hilarious watching people describe themselves with so much confidence. As if they know how the human mind works, and are so capable at it they can perform so…

That's pretty much the premise of the article.

Thanks, one of those HN moments where I didn't read the original.

Re: Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

#190

Post by strken »

_y5hn wrote: post #171
strken wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The supposed "draining" of introverts sounds like a cold reading technique or something you'd read in a horoscope. It applies to nearly everyone to some degree. Enjoy socialising but after a party you're glad to put your feet up and read a book? Get slight anxiety making small talk with strangers, to the point where you feel bad if you do it for more than six hours? Don't want to hang out with your boss at the mandat…

That's not what draining means. It may mean having to go to bed very early because you're all used up. The effects varies alot though. It's not a preference.

Draining has no rigorous meaning at all, and the reader can interpret it however they damn well feel like.

I am sure that the vast majority of people have had at least one day where social duties overwhelmed them. Extroverts, meaning people who are never ever drained by social interaction (for whichever meaning drained is given) seem to be vanishingly rare.

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