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Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

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Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is marketing. PRISM in the US is proof they don't really care. China and Russia also have data collection on iphones.

I think Apple truly cares about iMessage in particular maintaining E2EE. iCloud backup, for those who use it, is a different story.

E2EE iCloud backup is generally available since January this year. I have been using it since then with 0 issues. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#552
post #477
post #419

I feel we've been collectively losing the battle to keep our conversations private. The anti-encryption laws are likely vocally opposed only by a minority, while the majority believes they had no privacy to begin with and governments can read your messages at a whim. And perhaps that's true to some extent. But since most people believe the battle is lost, moreso that this has always been the status quo, then any batt…

> The anti-encryption laws are likely vocally opposed only by a minority I'd like you to back up that claim because from what I had seen about surveillance and terrorism most people supported it(even the patriot act had popular support in the polls). Only people smart enough to know about encryption oppose this. Most people who don't understand tech pretty much assume the government is already looking at messages. Lo…

I think you parsed the comment you're replying to backwards. Like you, the previous commenter suggested that opposition to surveillance is uncommon.

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#553
post #506
post #419

I feel we've been collectively losing the battle to keep our conversations private. The anti-encryption laws are likely vocally opposed only by a minority, while the majority believes they had no privacy to begin with and governments can read your messages at a whim. And perhaps that's true to some extent. But since most people believe the battle is lost, moreso that this has always been the status quo, then any batt…

It's crazy that we allow this at all. The government can't observe clandestine conversations that occur in person, does that mean they can mandate us to carry a government recording device? That people don't equally balk at requests to encumber encryption is baffling.

I like this vein of argument: assume that it is good that the government be able to snoop on your text messages. Why not in-person conversations as well? OK, let's make it so everything you say gets recorded. Eesh.

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#554
post #419

I feel we've been collectively losing the battle to keep our conversations private. The anti-encryption laws are likely vocally opposed only by a minority, while the majority believes they had no privacy to begin with and governments can read your messages at a whim. And perhaps that's true to some extent. But since most people believe the battle is lost, moreso that this has always been the status quo, then any batt…

> I feel we've been collectively losing the battle to keep our conversations private. The USA is still doing pretty good but the UK and the EU are staunchly anti privacy. They're pretty good on consumer privacy but don't believe that privacy from the government should exist.

The fact that almost every US telecoms provider is selling your location - and there is no restriction on law enforcement buying it - means that things are not exactly rosy in the US either.

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#555
post #497

Hm, I wonder what they do in China. In China they are running their own infrastructure on servers owned by party-affiliated businesses. I wonder how strong their encryption is over there? China blocks many services with strong encryption but it doesn’t block iMessage.

Facetime is disabled in China, and on any phones purchased in China. iMessage worked, last I went there.

Only Facetime Audio calls are disabled. Normal Facetime calls with video work fine with mainland china purchased iphones....so you have to call people using those phones with video even if you just want to talk to them and not see them. It's kind of silly because it's really unclear what actual problem this solves for anyone including the government. Perhaps the goal is to just make enough friction so that no one really uses it.

IIRC it's something to do with needing a license for audio-only telecommunications services. But I also might be entirely wrong about that.

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#556
post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then they should read the leaked government documents from around the world that contradict what Apple says themselves. On what specifically? > they should at least be able to read the actual code to corroborate its security, but that's not an option either. Why does that matter? You're already trusting Apple hardware. Public access to source code doesn't make security systems safer. I'm not sure what a journalist…

> On what specifically? For starters, PRISM and XKeyscore. Both are damning indictments of the state of surveillance a decade ago , and are so damaging that pretty much every FAANG company denies knowledge of their existence. PRISM was about the outreach the US government has with domestic companies, and XKeyscore showed just how far those connections could be abused. Simply the fact that these leaked documents exist…

> For starters, PRISM and XKeyscore. Both are damning indictments of the state of surveillance a decade ago, and are so damaging that pretty much every FAANG company denies knowledge of their existence.

Where's this denial by Apple? Or is your argument that because Apple doesn't admit colluding with the NSA they must be doing it. Well that is not falsifiable and what evidence are you speaking to of Apple specifically colluding with the NSA.

> I'd like to audit the code for those as well.

Firmware is not hardware. That would still not address the hardware issue.

> The majority of networked servers online today beg to differ. Over time the industry actually found that it's much safer to use an open and transparent OS than it is to trust a black-box with UB that may-or-may-not be fixed.

Yes, the neckbeards chant since CatB. There are extremely few people not putting their trust in blackboxes. Slapping linux on a box doesn't magically make it transparent - nor does linux have a security record you want to brag about.

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keys are managed by the government.

iCloud Keys are managed by a Chinese company, so in practice, yes. iPhone E2E stuff like iMessage, by definition, does not have keys that anyone else (including the government) possess. Though it hardly matters when ~90% of iPhone users likely have iCloud Backup on. In which case their messages will be backed up to the cloud to where the government could get keys.

[deleted]

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#558
post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, do you think there are people who think “Let’s Go Brandon” is anything but a hilarious conservative self-own?

How is this a self-own?

Because it makes people look like pathetic muppets. If you mean "Fuck Joe Biden", say "Fuck Joe Biden", don't clutch your damn pearls about it.

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#559
post #419

I feel we've been collectively losing the battle to keep our conversations private. The anti-encryption laws are likely vocally opposed only by a minority, while the majority believes they had no privacy to begin with and governments can read your messages at a whim. And perhaps that's true to some extent. But since most people believe the battle is lost, moreso that this has always been the status quo, then any batt…

An insidious part of this discussion is this idea that these laws do not interfere with encryption. IMHO, it's a dishonest stance to take but when debated, the first thing defenders of this legislation say is that this "does nothing to break encryption" or "Privacy and security are not mutually exclusive — we need both, and we can have both and that is what this amendment delivers."

In this plan messages are sent to a third party for analysis. Sure the messages sent to the third party are encrypted but your privacy is entirely violated.

https://techcrunch.com/2022/07/06/uk-osb-csam-scanning/

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#560
How is it supposed to work, if the UK laws were implemented?

Only phones activated in the UK or with UK set as the activating country have to follow the rule? Only if there's a SIM card? What about iPods or MacBooks? What if you bring a US phone to the UK, does it have to magically detect and suddenly allow backdoors?

If you leave the UK with your UK phone, is it allowed to be encrypted then, or the UK wants the ability no matter where you go?

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