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Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption
221–230 of 785 posts
Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption
#222Earlier quoted context omitted.
> but I dont see what incentive they would have. They are frequently subpoenaed for information, and turn over that data more often than not: https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/us.html
Yeah, because they are asked to/legally required. I was questioning incentives to hand over information on their own accord, just because they can.
All of these are their own accord. That's even what OP's article is about - if Apple is legally required to break their encryption in the EU, then they will discontinue their product.
Let's not pretend this is a privacy-motivated decision. Where Apple doesn't have negotiating power (eg. China) they have been forced to compromise user safety and privacy[0]. We live in a post XKeyscore world, pretending like this doesn't also happen in America or the UK is a bedtime story for helpless capitalists.
[0] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208351
edit: s/EU/UK
Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption
#223Earlier quoted context omitted.
They will only continue to do so while it remains profitable, at some point they will give in. They are a capitalist company, profits are their only concern.
How much would it affect Apple’s profit by not having iMessage in the UK?
Have you been seeing all the videos of women not dating men if they get a green text bubble! :)
Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption
#224Earlier quoted context omitted.
> voluntarily downloading an app that's all true until an app becomes the only way to interact with certain groups of people. i certainly wouldn't call my usage of Discord voluntary. it doesn't actually matter how often i read their privacy policy and shake my head. either I break off contact with a large part of the internet that's important to me or I begrudgingly agree "voluntarily" to their terms and conditions.
May I ask, what compels you to use discord if it's not voluntary? It's absolutely impossible to use keybase or signal?
Have you ever actually tried to convince a non-technical friend or family member to use a different platform for communicating? Now try that with 10 people at the same time. The only reason Discord ever became successful is the huge vacuum of good UX that existed before it. A fragmentation of Skype, Steam, XFire, Teamspeak, Vent and Mumble. Jabber if you were playing certain MMOs. Signal and Keybase aren't even close either. Matrix is a little better, but still far off, and they have the Mastodon problem where explaining federation turns off normal peoples brains.
And aside from that, a lot of software communities are on Discord now. People are gating download links behind it, use their threading feature for support and put their knowledge base in channels. And not just small communities and developers. ASUS has made their main communication channel Discord too.
Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption
#225Earlier quoted context omitted.
What? The police openly admitted after an investigation that this is the reason they let it continue for generations. I'm framing this in reference to the UK government claiming they need the information to prevent child trafficking while their track record indicates that even with data they ignored it for decades. Please save the hysteria and wild accusations for Twitter https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.com/sto…
Are there sources other then the police, who failed to act and have a vested interest in finding excuses? Because "the dog ate my homework" I mean "no, cause I didn't want to be racist" stretches credulity.
The parent didn't exactly choose the perpetrators did he?
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/newcastle-grooming-scan...
Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption
#226Stuff like this is why I'm an Apple fanboy. I'm happy to pay a premium and be locked into their walled garden for some things if it means supporting a company that has the power to shift policy in favor of human rights (privacy in this case).
Seems that the UK market is not big enough. In China Apple had no problems with ceding control of their local servers to the Chinese government [1]. Not to mention of using forced labor (mostly Uyghurs, against which China is committing acts of genocide [2]). So, Apple and human rights my ass!
1. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/17/technology/apple-china-ce...
Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption
#227Earlier quoted context omitted.
How much would it affect Apple’s profit by not having iMessage in the UK?
Have you been seeing all the videos of women not dating men if they get a green text bubble! :)
We don’t need more British people mating with their fancy tea and accents anyway /s.
Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption
#228Earlier quoted context omitted.
May I ask, what compels you to use discord if it's not voluntary? It's absolutely impossible to use keybase or signal?
Have you ever actually tried to convince a non-technical friend or family member to use a different platform for communicating? Now try that with 10 people at the same time. The only reason Discord ever became successful is the huge vacuum of good UX that existed before it. A fragmentation of Skype, Steam, XFire, Teamspeak, Vent and Mumble. Jabber if you were playing certain MMOs. Signal and Keybase aren't even close…
I understand! It's just that I never had to download Discord for anything.
I agree it's difficult. I've had success showing keybase to people because of how barebones simple it is - but it's not a solution for everything of course.
Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption
#229Earlier quoted context omitted.
In fairness, Meta has said the same thing re: WhatsApp, so while Apple deserves _some_ credit here for sticking to their principles, they're not exactly leading the pack. Which brings home the point that if _Meta_ isn't onboard with your privacy-obliterating proposal then you know you've really lost the plot...
In even more fairness, Meta has literally skipped the EU for Threads instead of increasing privacy. In their case, it's just a careful balance of virtue signaling, it had no qualms about pushing their spyware to hundreds of millions of people, violating basic human rights in the process. Check Article 12: https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-huma...
I don’t think it’s because of not wanting to preserve privacy I think it’s because it takes a shit ton of time to comply with all the orders the EU has pinned on them.
Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption
#230Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your comment would have been stronger if you left out the piece re: the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, because it's an eye roller. Article 12 is: > No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks. I'm no fan of Meta or the…
I think that the problem is that Meta has normalized this violation so it doesn't feel like a big deal. It feels watered down even for someone like you who appears to be very aware of the problem. It's like exploited workers and people living in quasi-slavery, many of them don't understand their rights and "voluntarily" waive them. My parents didn't really understand the implications of "voluntarily" accepting Meta's…
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