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Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

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Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#61
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not in a society.

Not only is privacy a fundamental right within a society but it is fundamentally necessary to the advancement, and thus long term survival, of any society.

To be honest that sounds like both an idealised slogan and a sophism empty of logic.

Can you expand upon how the advancements in western society since (say) WWII have been neccesarily dependant upon privacy?

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#62
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fairness, Meta has said the same thing re: WhatsApp, so while Apple deserves _some_ credit here for sticking to their principles, they're not exactly leading the pack. Which brings home the point that if _Meta_ isn't onboard with your privacy-obliterating proposal then you know you've really lost the plot...

I think Meta _needs_ WhatsApp to be their loss-leader (not really, but you know) when it comes to security. They always get to say "oh but WhatsApp is E2E!! We do care about security!"

Messenger also has e2e, but it's opt in.

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#63
post #44

Stuff like this is why I'm an Apple fanboy. I'm happy to pay a premium and be locked into their walled garden for some things if it means supporting a company that has the power to shift policy in favor of human rights (privacy in this case).

You are just giving your secrets to a company you can't change instead of a goverment you can elect.

The company doesn't have a hundred thousand armed officers with the ability to arrest / kill me for anything they can claim they found. Government comes equipped with legal violence, the company comes equipped with targeted ads

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#64
post #28

The current conservative government is on its last legs before being banished for at least a decade. It appears they already have their eyes on the lucrative private sector and are willing to vandalise the UK with little thought to public protest.

Labour are even more in favour of this than the tories are. Lib Dems, too. No mainstream party in the UK values your privacy.

Agreed, Sir Keith Starmer honestly seems like a relic from the Cold War

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#65
post #44

Stuff like this is why I'm an Apple fanboy. I'm happy to pay a premium and be locked into their walled garden for some things if it means supporting a company that has the power to shift policy in favor of human rights (privacy in this case).

You are just giving your secrets to a company you can't change instead of a goverment you can elect.

The company can't send me in jail if they don't like what I'm trying to keep secret

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#66
post #44

Stuff like this is why I'm an Apple fanboy. I'm happy to pay a premium and be locked into their walled garden for some things if it means supporting a company that has the power to shift policy in favor of human rights (privacy in this case).

You are just giving your secrets to a company you can't change instead of a goverment you can elect.

Companies can’t put you in a box at gunpoint if you break one of their rules.

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#67
post #38
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fairness, Meta has said the same thing re: WhatsApp, so while Apple deserves _some_ credit here for sticking to their principles, they're not exactly leading the pack. Which brings home the point that if _Meta_ isn't onboard with your privacy-obliterating proposal then you know you've really lost the plot...

Has Meta threatened to boycott? I know Signal has, and now Apple. However my searches for Meta/WhatsApp seem to show that there’s been contention over their introduction of E2E but they haven’t actually threatened to pull out over it. That said, I’d be very happy to see that they did threaten a boycott as well.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/mar/09/whatsapp-...

Meta:

> Some countries have chosen to block it [WhatsApp]: that’s the reality of shipping a secure product. We’ve recently been blocked in Iran, for example. But we’ve never seen a liberal democracy do that.

They said they won't comply. UK would have to simply block WhatsApp.

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. iMessage and Facetime use end-to-end encryption in China, probably among only a few apps allowed to do so.

Thats really weird, kinda like how Steam existed for so long in China.

Steam has e2e?

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#69

Are iMessage and Facetime disabled in China?

My understanding is that Messages and Facetime are still E2E encrypted in China. However, if you back things up in iCloud, China does have the keys to decrypt that. The difference is the UK wants to violate E2E encryption in Messages/FT.

I could be wrong about the current state, but I need to see evidence first.

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#70
post #11

> Apple previously withdrew plans for its own CSAM-scanning feature for iCloud Photos, following pushback from customers and human rights groups. Apple’s solution was more privacy-preserving than what is now proposed by the UK government. Preface: I don't have an opinion on one side or the other. Question: what were the arguments lobbied against apple that caused them to withdraw? Also, is CSAM the motivating factor…

Of course it's just about surveillance. CSAM is just an excuse that is a sensitive topic so it's easier to justify which masks their actual intentions.
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