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Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

vipshek.com

111–120 of 192 posts

Re: Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

#111

I never understand why people (especially in the US) have a desire to split everything into two opposing sides. Liberal/conservative, introvert/extrovert and many others. I think it's pretty obvious that most (all?) people are on a spectrum of many dimensions and can't be categorized that easily. These labels can give useful hints but there is way more detail to look at.

> why people (especially in the US) have a desire to split everything into two opposing sides

Fundamentally, this is a typical strategy for the human mind and even organisms in general, to understand the world by categorizing it into opposing pairs: light/dark, hot/cold, life/death, up/down, left/right. This is often discussed in Buddhism, for example, there is a whole school of tradition called "Not Two" that focuses on going beyond this illusion of duality.

About how polar opposition seems to be stronger in the U.S., in my opinion that's due to the weaponization of culture in the country, how the media is used to manipulate the public into outrage and conflict. It's a form of social control that's pretty much everywhere, but it seems to have especially reached a boiling point in the U.S. in recent years.

It's a primitive, simplistic and reductive way of looking at the world, ignoring the spectrum in between the opposing sides, which are arbitrary anyway.

Maybe there are introverts, extroverts, various mixtures between, and even hyperverts or transverts who prefer one side or the other depending on their mood or life stages.

Re: Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

#112
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what you call bullshit is a core part of the generally accepted definition of an introvert, so I'd want some more extraordinary proof than this in order to be persuaded. > Ive met many self declared introverts who have no problem socializing for long periods in small groups with people they trust absolutely. How do you know they had no problem socializing for long periods? Did you ask them, or did they just n…

>How do you know they had no problem socializing for long periods? Did you ask them Yes of course. I think pretty much every self declared introvert Ive asked about this had 1-5 people for whom spending time with them didnt "drain" them - e.g. best friend, parent, spouse, etc. When they described what type of situations drained them that they enjoyed it would generally be something like going to a party where they di…

that's not enough evidence. while i would generally agree that it is true and matches my experience that the better i know people the less drained i get interacting with them, i have interacted with people i have never met before without being drained and i can get drained by people who i otherwise trust. in both cases what mattered was that i had to focus on them and not on myself. where i don't get drained with total strangers is when the topic of discussion is one where i can contribute a lot, vs a topic where i feel less secure. naturally interacting with best friends, partners and other close family, topics are often familiar and comfortable, and, uncomfortable topics are easy to avoid. at a party on the other hand it can be hit or miss, and usually hits are rare. out of several dozen events i can count two where someone i never met before and me found a topic so interesting that we were talking about it for hours. going home from those left me full of energy, when most others didn't.

Re: Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

#113
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>introverts find interactions with other “draining” I'm pretty sure this is bullshit. Level of drain = lack of trust in that person X overall level of anxiety If you're highly anxious and socializing with people you dont trust (strangers, acquaintances) then the experience will be stressful and draining. Ive met many self declared introverts who have no problem socializing for long periods in small groups with people…

I think what you call bullshit is a core part of the generally accepted definition of an introvert, so I'd want some more extraordinary proof than this in order to be persuaded. > Ive met many self declared introverts who have no problem socializing for long periods in small groups with people they trust absolutely. How do you know they had no problem socializing for long periods? Did you ask them, or did they just n…

> generally accepted definition of an introvert

As far as I can tell this is really just true for a sort of Reddit centric extremely online crowd, in the category of “everyone knows” stuff that just originates from random message board postings that catch on.

Re: Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I never understand why people (especially in the US) have a desire to split everything into two opposing sides For the record, I don't think this has anything to do with the U.S., false dichotomies are a more or less equally common human shorthand anywhere and anywhen that I've visited, or studied at all. I've assumed it's because people don't have time or energy to consider all the nuances of everything all the ti…

There are two types of people -- those who like to split everything into two categories, and those who believe everything exists on a continuous spectrum.

"There are two kinds of people in this world. The kind who divide the world into two kinds of people and those who don’t."

Re: Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

#115
post #9

Introvert and extrovert is the most widely misunderstood thing I have seen at work and in personal life. This article also doesn’t do justice to the nuance that introverts find interactions with other “draining” … but it’s not necessary that they suck at it. I feel this way: having led teams of hundreds of people, I know I can have deep, meaningful and long conversations… but I don’t find them a source of joy. I enco…

I am a rather extreme introvert myself and also a people leader. The people who report to me often have no idea that I’m introverted because I am a strong communicator, and I genuinely enjoy talking to people. I _do_ find it to be a source of joy.

The primary difference between myself and my extreme extrovert wife is that at the end of the day I am emotionally drained and need some quiet time to recharge, while she’s still itching to talk.

Re: Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

#116
post #9

Introvert and extrovert is the most widely misunderstood thing I have seen at work and in personal life. This article also doesn’t do justice to the nuance that introverts find interactions with other “draining” … but it’s not necessary that they suck at it. I feel this way: having led teams of hundreds of people, I know I can have deep, meaningful and long conversations… but I don’t find them a source of joy. I enco…

It is widely misunderstood as a result of people taking that small piece Jung's overall personality theory and ignoring the rest. It's the lowest common denominator tweet sized "elevator pitch" you can extract from the overall theory.

You aren't "an" introvert or an extrovert, rather you have cognitive functions that are themselves introverted or extroverted and they are ordered in your personality between strongest and weakest.

Everyone has both introverted and extroverted functions, and the opposite is always the second strongest. This is why people make up the word "ambivert." People are also confused depending on whether that function is perceptual (intuition / sensory) or judgmental (thinking / feeling), with the perceptual ones, from the meme level understanding appearing introverted.

Re: Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

#117
There are 5 labels I am aware of since I have been on this earth.

extrovert - dominant outside introvert - dominant inside ambivert - switches outside and inside inextrovert - dominant introvert and in certain situations extrovert exintrovert - dominant extrovert and in certain situations introvert

Anyone aware of any other categories we can put people into?

Re: Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

#118
post #43
post #9

Introvert and extrovert is the most widely misunderstood thing I have seen at work and in personal life. This article also doesn’t do justice to the nuance that introverts find interactions with other “draining” … but it’s not necessary that they suck at it. I feel this way: having led teams of hundreds of people, I know I can have deep, meaningful and long conversations… but I don’t find them a source of joy. I enco…

I did briefly discuss this idea of interactions "draining energy" in the post here: https://www.vipshek.com/blog/interaction#balance-not-batteri... . I understand that the idea of draining vs. charging works for some people, but I always found this concept even more baffling. For me, when I've been in solitude for a while, I feel a restless desire to go out and interact with people. When I'm in that lonely state, I f…

Two aspects I can think of that contribute to a sense of ‘draining’:

- how much one ‘masks’ one’s feelings

- how much attention/energy one spends deeply engaging with the other thoughtfully

Eg two very different examples of draining conversations:

1. you’re at a party hosted by someone you care about and being a fun guest, but more for the host’s sake because you care about them and want to show up for them and help assuage their worries their party might not be a success. you can keep your energy expenditure lowish but likely find yourself on social autopilot. passive engagement + commitment to fixing oneself to the event = energy cost

2. you run into a total stranger whose interests align exactly like yours and who is just as excited to talk to you as you are to them. But at the end of such conversations you have explored so much and learned so much from them, it takes a bit of a breather to disengage. Fun and active engagement but really high energy expenditure

Re: Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

#119
post #9

Introvert and extrovert is the most widely misunderstood thing I have seen at work and in personal life. This article also doesn’t do justice to the nuance that introverts find interactions with other “draining” … but it’s not necessary that they suck at it. I feel this way: having led teams of hundreds of people, I know I can have deep, meaningful and long conversations… but I don’t find them a source of joy. I enco…

> having led teams of hundreds of people, I know I can have deep, meaningful and long conversations… but I don’t find them a source of joy

Do you consider yourself an introvert or extrovert? I am deeply introverted, but deep conversations are what I yearn for, but I find most people are not willing to engage in such, especially extroverts.

It was my understanding that most introverts actually feel deeply, which is precisely why social interactions that are not intellectually stimulating are draining. Though even the intellectually stimulating ones are still tiring, just not draining.

Re: Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

#120
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair to Jung, most of what he wrote is barely coherent garbage with zero experimental backing and an attitude towards intellectual honesty and scientific integrity which I would politely qualify as problematic. Sorry, I think it had to be said.

Do you fear Jung's ideas? If they are incoherent garbage with no merit, shouldn't they just collapse under their own weight?

Collapse? Yes eventually, but in the meantime…
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