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Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

vipshek.com

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Re: Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

#51

Post by coffeebeqn »

jgilias wrote: post #39
pydry wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>introverts find interactions with other “draining” I'm pretty sure this is bullshit. Level of drain = lack of trust in that person X overall level of anxiety If you're highly anxious and socializing with people you dont trust (strangers, acquaintances) then the experience will be stressful and draining. Ive met many self declared introverts who have no problem socializing for long periods in small groups with people…

Well, no. I guess if you don’t know then you don’t know. As an anecdotal personal example. I love my wife and kids dearly. I trust them, and feel no anxiety being around them. Yet it’s draining. Now they’re gone for a few days, and I feel very good being finally alone for a few days. Likewise I enjoy getting together with friends and family. I’ve also learned to be sociable. But it’s draining. After a day of having t…

You also adjust to a degree. With a family those longer moments can be as rare as a few times a year. I used to be alone for many hours or days almost daily when I was younger. But I’m doing fine. I really do enjoy the moments of solitude but I guess I don’t need them as much as I thought.

With this “draining” metaphor you’d think every introvert parent is a mere husk

Re: Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

#52

Post by ravitation »

rqtwteye wrote: post #26

I never understand why people (especially in the US) have a desire to split everything into two opposing sides. Liberal/conservative, introvert/extrovert and many others. I think it's pretty obvious that most (all?) people are on a spectrum of many dimensions and can't be categorized that easily. These labels can give useful hints but there is way more detail to look at.

One other problem is that whenever these conversations come up in "extremely public spaces" (i.e. the internet), you inevitably have a small group that strongly identifies with the textbook definitions of introvert/extrovert. Anecdotally (though this is the internet), this is almost entirely self-identified introverts; they will swear that every social interaction leaves them drained and they need a certain amount of hours alone to recover (there is almost certainly some confounding variables and bias at play here). Afterwards, those that do not see their own lives described by these definitions are generally less interested than the former group in arguing about the definitions' supposed validity.

Re: Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

#53

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

pydry wrote: post #38
akhayam wrote: post #9

Introvert and extrovert is the most widely misunderstood thing I have seen at work and in personal life. This article also doesn’t do justice to the nuance that introverts find interactions with other “draining” … but it’s not necessary that they suck at it. I feel this way: having led teams of hundreds of people, I know I can have deep, meaningful and long conversations… but I don’t find them a source of joy. I enco…

>introverts find interactions with other “draining” I'm pretty sure this is bullshit. Level of drain = lack of trust in that person X overall level of anxiety If you're highly anxious and socializing with people you dont trust (strangers, acquaintances) then the experience will be stressful and draining. Ive met many self declared introverts who have no problem socializing for long periods in small groups with people…

You're heavily conflating anxiety and introversion. My wife is an extrovert with anxiety - once she gets comfortable she's energized by people. She comes home bouncing off the walls. I'm an introvert - regardless of comfort level I come home and want to go to bed immediately.

Re: Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

#54

Post by hightrix »

vipshek wrote: post #43
akhayam wrote: post #9

Introvert and extrovert is the most widely misunderstood thing I have seen at work and in personal life. This article also doesn’t do justice to the nuance that introverts find interactions with other “draining” … but it’s not necessary that they suck at it. I feel this way: having led teams of hundreds of people, I know I can have deep, meaningful and long conversations… but I don’t find them a source of joy. I enco…

I did briefly discuss this idea of interactions "draining energy" in the post here: https://www.vipshek.com/blog/interaction#balance-not-batteri... . I understand that the idea of draining vs. charging works for some people, but I always found this concept even more baffling. For me, when I've been in solitude for a while, I feel a restless desire to go out and interact with people. When I'm in that lonely state, I f…

As an anecdote, I am always drained by social interaction and always recharged by solitude.

I can be home alone all week and still dread going out to a party if I’m not in the mood. I’m a very social person, but it is still draining. I have never felt so alone that I need social interaction, but I have frequently felt a strong need to be alone.

But I’m also like the parent in that I’ve lead large teams, had greater interpersonal relationships, and have been hoisted to leadership positions regardless of if I was trying to get there or not.

Finally, I imagine the reality of extrovert vs introvert is similar to the modern understanding of gender as a spectrum. I would guess there are not many people that are wholly introverted or extroverted.

Re: Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

#55

Post by leonhard »

sublinear wrote: post #36
kstrauser wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Despite claiming to have been one, you don't seem to understand what an introvert is. I'm a functional adult. I have a wife and kids, friends, and a good job. I can speak in public if needed, although I'd prefer not to. I don't have trouble meeting new people, talking to them, and getting to know them. I'm not shy, but I am an introvert. Being in crowds of people I'm expected to interact with on a personal level drai…

> They both raised me, and they both stressed the importance of good social graces. No offense intended. Parents often tell, sometimes show, but rarely teach their kids much. Teaching isn't easy. My original point was that so much of this is also in the hands of the person, not your parents or society. Nurture isn't all external. I had a similar relationship with my parents. > But if there's a hell, my corner of it l…

Any advice on how to develop such skills in charm and charisma?

Re: Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

#56

Post by 0xfae »

elliottinvent wrote: post #22

It was recently explained to me: Introverts charge their battery in solitude and discharge it socialising. Extroverts the opposite.

The author talks about how he dislikes this characterization exactly because it's so binary and doesn't seem to be accurate for most people who fall into the "ambivert" center of the bell curve. The whole article is a beautiful breakdown of how social interaction is much more multi-faceted than this. You should read it.

Re: Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

#57

Post by pydry »

karaterobot wrote: post #48
pydry wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>introverts find interactions with other “draining” I'm pretty sure this is bullshit. Level of drain = lack of trust in that person X overall level of anxiety If you're highly anxious and socializing with people you dont trust (strangers, acquaintances) then the experience will be stressful and draining. Ive met many self declared introverts who have no problem socializing for long periods in small groups with people…

I think what you call bullshit is a core part of the generally accepted definition of an introvert, so I'd want some more extraordinary proof than this in order to be persuaded. > Ive met many self declared introverts who have no problem socializing for long periods in small groups with people they trust absolutely. How do you know they had no problem socializing for long periods? Did you ask them, or did they just n…

>How do you know they had no problem socializing for long periods? Did you ask them

Yes of course. I think pretty much every self declared introvert Ive asked about this had 1-5 people for whom spending time with them didnt "drain" them - e.g. best friend, parent, spouse, etc.

When they described what type of situations drained them that they enjoyed it would generally be something like going to a party where they didnt know anyone.

Re: Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

#58

Post by vidarh »

pydry wrote: post #38
akhayam wrote: post #9

Introvert and extrovert is the most widely misunderstood thing I have seen at work and in personal life. This article also doesn’t do justice to the nuance that introverts find interactions with other “draining” … but it’s not necessary that they suck at it. I feel this way: having led teams of hundreds of people, I know I can have deep, meaningful and long conversations… but I don’t find them a source of joy. I enco…

>introverts find interactions with other “draining” I'm pretty sure this is bullshit. Level of drain = lack of trust in that person X overall level of anxiety If you're highly anxious and socializing with people you dont trust (strangers, acquaintances) then the experience will be stressful and draining. Ive met many self declared introverts who have no problem socializing for long periods in small groups with people…

It does not matter how much I trust someone, or how relaxed I am, or indeed how much I enjoy myself with someone, being around people still drains me of energy. There are differences in how fast, but not whether or not it drains me.

Re: Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

#59

Post by Bloating »

rqtwteye wrote: post #26

I never understand why people (especially in the US) have a desire to split everything into two opposing sides. Liberal/conservative, introvert/extrovert and many others. I think it's pretty obvious that most (all?) people are on a spectrum of many dimensions and can't be categorized that easily. These labels can give useful hints but there is way more detail to look at.

Theres 10 types of people, those who understand binary and those who don't

Re: Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

#60

Post by 0xfae »

stronglikedan wrote: post #42
pydry wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>introverts find interactions with other “draining” I'm pretty sure this is bullshit. Level of drain = lack of trust in that person X overall level of anxiety If you're highly anxious and socializing with people you dont trust (strangers, acquaintances) then the experience will be stressful and draining. Ive met many self declared introverts who have no problem socializing for long periods in small groups with people…

> introverts find interactions with other “draining” > I'm pretty sure this is bullshit. As an introvert, it's spot on. I have no problems socializing with people, whether I trust them or not. I spend long periods (e.g., days camping) with groups that I trust. I enjoy all of it in the moment. I don't have anxiety. It's all still draining, and I need to spend days alone to recharge after days of socializing, enjoyable…

I think if you use the model presented by the author of the article, it's less than you need to "recharge" but rather that after a few days you've filled your small group and large group bucket/quota, and now you need to fill that solitude bucket/quota.

It's just two different ways of describing the same phenomenon. I like the authors because it's much more multi-faceted and easier to find practical applications, at least in my mind. "I enjoy a good amount of solitude, and I've just spent several days socializing, so I'm going to prioritize alone time for the next few days" rather than "I need to recharge so I can be social again." It's similar, but I like the first one better.

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