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Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

vipshek.com

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Re: Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

#41

Post by coffeebeqn »

BeetleB wrote: post #14
akhayam wrote: post #9

Introvert and extrovert is the most widely misunderstood thing I have seen at work and in personal life. This article also doesn’t do justice to the nuance that introverts find interactions with other “draining” … but it’s not necessary that they suck at it. I feel this way: having led teams of hundreds of people, I know I can have deep, meaningful and long conversations… but I don’t find them a source of joy. I enco…

> I know I can have deep, meaningful and long conversations… but I don’t find them a source of joy. Sorry to add to the flames, but many (most?) introverts generally do find joy in deep, meaningful long conversations. It's the small talk they tend to dislike. The problem is trying to shoehorn everything into introvert vs extrovert. The reality is it's a vector. Small talk vs meaningful conversations is an axis differ…

It’s also who you’re interacting with that’s a big input. A party where you know no one but have to be at VS talking to your best friend or kids or spouse for example.

Re: Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

#42

Post by stronglikedan »

pydry wrote: post #38
akhayam wrote: post #9

Introvert and extrovert is the most widely misunderstood thing I have seen at work and in personal life. This article also doesn’t do justice to the nuance that introverts find interactions with other “draining” … but it’s not necessary that they suck at it. I feel this way: having led teams of hundreds of people, I know I can have deep, meaningful and long conversations… but I don’t find them a source of joy. I enco…

>introverts find interactions with other “draining” I'm pretty sure this is bullshit. Level of drain = lack of trust in that person X overall level of anxiety If you're highly anxious and socializing with people you dont trust (strangers, acquaintances) then the experience will be stressful and draining. Ive met many self declared introverts who have no problem socializing for long periods in small groups with people…

> introverts find interactions with other “draining”

> I'm pretty sure this is bullshit.

As an introvert, it's spot on. I have no problems socializing with people, whether I trust them or not. I spend long periods (e.g., days camping) with groups that I trust. I enjoy all of it in the moment. I don't have anxiety. It's all still draining, and I need to spend days alone to recharge after days of socializing, enjoyable or otherwise.

Re: Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

#43

Post by vipshek »

akhayam wrote: post #9

Introvert and extrovert is the most widely misunderstood thing I have seen at work and in personal life. This article also doesn’t do justice to the nuance that introverts find interactions with other “draining” … but it’s not necessary that they suck at it. I feel this way: having led teams of hundreds of people, I know I can have deep, meaningful and long conversations… but I don’t find them a source of joy. I enco…

I did briefly discuss this idea of interactions "draining energy" in the post here: https://www.vipshek.com/blog/interaction#balance-not-batteri....

I understand that the idea of draining vs. charging works for some people, but I always found this concept even more baffling. For me, when I've been in solitude for a while, I feel a restless desire to go out and interact with people. When I'm in that lonely state, I find social interaction "charging" and further solitude "draining."

But when I go interact with people for a long time—especially in a large group where I don't know people well—I feel an urge to retreat to solitude.

So am I charged by solitude and drained by interaction, or the other way around? It feels like the answer is "both"... so what am I supposed to do with all this?

One way you could think about my model is that you have four "batteries", each of which has an optimal "charge level." If you're under that level, you'll feel a desire to be in that state for a while. If you're over it, you'll feel an aversion to being in that state. And it's possible that if you're quite introverted, your optimal level of large-group interaction is close to zero.

If you're somewhere in the middle like me, though, the simple idea that you're "drained" by one thing or the other feels off.

Re: Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

#44

Post by stronglikedan »

rqtwteye wrote: post #26

I never understand why people (especially in the US) have a desire to split everything into two opposing sides. Liberal/conservative, introvert/extrovert and many others. I think it's pretty obvious that most (all?) people are on a spectrum of many dimensions and can't be categorized that easily. These labels can give useful hints but there is way more detail to look at.

It's human nature, and not especially in the US. It eases cognition when thinking about things.

Re: Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

#45

Post by mklarmann »

BeetleB wrote: post #14
akhayam wrote: post #9

Introvert and extrovert is the most widely misunderstood thing I have seen at work and in personal life. This article also doesn’t do justice to the nuance that introverts find interactions with other “draining” … but it’s not necessary that they suck at it. I feel this way: having led teams of hundreds of people, I know I can have deep, meaningful and long conversations… but I don’t find them a source of joy. I enco…

> I know I can have deep, meaningful and long conversations… but I don’t find them a source of joy. Sorry to add to the flames, but many (most?) introverts generally do find joy in deep, meaningful long conversations. It's the small talk they tend to dislike. The problem is trying to shoehorn everything into introvert vs extrovert. The reality is it's a vector. Small talk vs meaningful conversations is an axis differ…

I would even argue, that it is depending on the context (on how you feel) that makes you introvert or extrovert in the situation. Not just a vector. I found it funny doing some tests, but once with the mindset of being a CEO, and in the other situation on the dancefloor, etc.

Re: Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

#46

Post by akomtu »

rqtwteye wrote: post #26

I never understand why people (especially in the US) have a desire to split everything into two opposing sides. Liberal/conservative, introvert/extrovert and many others. I think it's pretty obvious that most (all?) people are on a spectrum of many dimensions and can't be categorized that easily. These labels can give useful hints but there is way more detail to look at.

Isn't it the key feature of the lower rational mind to draw a boundary between I and not-I, true vs false? It is this type of mind that loves to criticize, as it needs to label every thing as true or false. Seeing things as a spectrum, as a distribution of probabilities, is a key feature of the upper abstract mind, and it's barely developed in us today. And most people are still developing the rational mind, and usually swim in the stormy sea of emotions.

Re: Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

#47

Post by karaterobot »

rqtwteye wrote: post #26

I never understand why people (especially in the US) have a desire to split everything into two opposing sides. Liberal/conservative, introvert/extrovert and many others. I think it's pretty obvious that most (all?) people are on a spectrum of many dimensions and can't be categorized that easily. These labels can give useful hints but there is way more detail to look at.

> I never understand why people (especially in the US) have a desire to split everything into two opposing sides

For the record, I don't think this has anything to do with the U.S., false dichotomies are a more or less equally common human shorthand anywhere and anywhen that I've visited, or studied at all.

I've assumed it's because people don't have time or energy to consider all the nuances of everything all the time, or the space to list them out. The brain is in many ways a device for ignoring anything that doesn't help you get food and not get eaten by a lion.

Re: Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

#48

Post by karaterobot »

pydry wrote: post #38
akhayam wrote: post #9

Introvert and extrovert is the most widely misunderstood thing I have seen at work and in personal life. This article also doesn’t do justice to the nuance that introverts find interactions with other “draining” … but it’s not necessary that they suck at it. I feel this way: having led teams of hundreds of people, I know I can have deep, meaningful and long conversations… but I don’t find them a source of joy. I enco…

>introverts find interactions with other “draining” I'm pretty sure this is bullshit. Level of drain = lack of trust in that person X overall level of anxiety If you're highly anxious and socializing with people you dont trust (strangers, acquaintances) then the experience will be stressful and draining. Ive met many self declared introverts who have no problem socializing for long periods in small groups with people…

I think what you call bullshit is a core part of the generally accepted definition of an introvert, so I'd want some more extraordinary proof than this in order to be persuaded.

> Ive met many self declared introverts who have no problem socializing for long periods in small groups with people they trust absolutely.

How do you know they had no problem socializing for long periods? Did you ask them, or did they just not complain about it to you? Part of the issue for many introverts is the social expectation is often set by a more extroverted culture, and they just try to fit in. That doesn't mean they prefer chatting with you for four hours rather than, say, two hours.

Re: Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

#49

Post by Tokkemon »

rqtwteye wrote: post #26

I never understand why people (especially in the US) have a desire to split everything into two opposing sides. Liberal/conservative, introvert/extrovert and many others. I think it's pretty obvious that most (all?) people are on a spectrum of many dimensions and can't be categorized that easily. These labels can give useful hints but there is way more detail to look at.

Because 3D chess is hard.

Re: Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

#50

Post by kstrauser »

sublinear wrote: post #36
kstrauser wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Despite claiming to have been one, you don't seem to understand what an introvert is. I'm a functional adult. I have a wife and kids, friends, and a good job. I can speak in public if needed, although I'd prefer not to. I don't have trouble meeting new people, talking to them, and getting to know them. I'm not shy, but I am an introvert. Being in crowds of people I'm expected to interact with on a personal level drai…

> They both raised me, and they both stressed the importance of good social graces. No offense intended. Parents often tell, sometimes show, but rarely teach their kids much. Teaching isn't easy. My original point was that so much of this is also in the hands of the person, not your parents or society. Nurture isn't all external. I had a similar relationship with my parents. > But if there's a hell, my corner of it l…

I trust your sincerity, but our experiences couldn't be more different.

First, my parents taught me, TYVM. I'm competent, and confident, in social settings. I know what's expected of me and how to do it. It's still exhausting, though.

Honestly, the rest of your comment sounds more like you were always an extrovert but with social anxiety, and you got over it. I've never had social anxiety. Again, I can do all the things you're talking about, and I'm pretty good at them. When I've worked with salespeople in the past, I've been the engineer that they wanted to put in a room with customers, because I can make them laugh and give them warm fuzzy feelings about my employer.

But when I'm done, my emotional batteries are completely empty and I have to recharge by myself or with a small circle of people I know very well and can relax around.

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