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Microsoft faces antitrust scrutiny from the EU over Teams, Office 365

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Re: Microsoft faces antitrust scrutiny from the EU over Teams, Office 365

#71

Post by makeitdouble »

Dalewyn wrote: post #35
veave wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"massive ad campaigns" is hardly an antitrust matter. Chrome ate Firefox and IE back in the day because it was monumentally better, technologically speaking.

Chrome when it released was faster than Firefox, but it wasn't "better". It ate far more RAM than either Firefox or IE did (and still does), back when RAM capacities were still practically limited, and Chrome was (and is) rendering the internet in Chrome ways much like IE did in Trident ways and Firefox has in Gecko ways. Chrome also had and still has its own UI paradigms, including no title bar, menu bar, nor status…

Chrome's crushing advantage is/was perfect Google service support. For a long time Safari has struggled with Google Suite, Youtube support is/was janky on almost every other browser etc.

The Edge incident was kind of a perfect illustration of how Google either didn't care or actively threw spikes in rivals' wheels.

Re: Microsoft faces antitrust scrutiny from the EU over Teams, Office 365

#72

Post by arethuza »

elric wrote: post #61
skrause wrote: post #28

My employer is a prime example for this case: We use Microsoft 365 because we need Microsoft Office and use their email hosting. And then we use Teams simply because it's already included in the package anyway, even though many employees hate it, but it's hard to argue for another solution because why pay for Slack when we already have Teams "for free"? And since Teams doesn't really need to compete on functionality…

It's particularly galling how Outlook invites *by default* include a Teams link. You can disable this on a per invite basis or in your settings, but it's pretty icky behaviour.

It may a per-tenant setting but I checked that and a new meeting created in Outlook doesn't contain a Teams link - you have to either select "New Teams Meeting" or select "New Meeting" and then explicitly make it a Teams meeting.

New meetings created in Teams do include a Teams link - but isn't that what you would expect?

Re: Microsoft faces antitrust scrutiny from the EU over Teams, Office 365

#73

Post by manuelabeledo »

kwanbix wrote: post #4
withinboredom wrote: post #2

Jeez man. Everyone keeps bashing on Microsoft for this shit. Have they seen Google, Amazon, etc?

I also don't understand what they expect. That Microsoft bundles google meet? amazon chime? Slack?

Perhaps not bundling Teams with Office, or make Office products default to Teams, would be a start.

Re: Microsoft faces antitrust scrutiny from the EU over Teams, Office 365

#75

Post by gls2ro »

withinboredom wrote: post #44
seszett wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Slack filed a complaint with the EU in 2020, claiming that Microsoft was "force installing [Teams] for millions, blocking its removal, and hiding the true cost to enterprise customers." I'm pretty sure force installing even more software and blocking removal isn't what they are going for.

Yes. Let me introduce you to a Mac. Where the messaging software comes preinstalled and you can’t remove it.

what is the market share for MacOS in EU or in US?

I bet it is single digit right?

Re: Microsoft faces antitrust scrutiny from the EU over Teams, Office 365

#76

Post by teekert »

Honestly, it just works so well. I get the argument, I’ve also seen the decline of Slack as Teams became the default, and normally I’d be pissed. But MS365 is just incredible value for money.

Even on Linux in Edge mostly it feels like a no brainer for any company.

Re: Microsoft faces antitrust scrutiny from the EU over Teams, Office 365

#77

Post by rotzgoober »

arethuza wrote: post #72
elric wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's particularly galling how Outlook invites *by default* include a Teams link. You can disable this on a per invite basis or in your settings, but it's pretty icky behaviour.

It may a per-tenant setting but I checked that and a new meeting created in Outlook doesn't contain a Teams link - you have to either select "New Teams Meeting" or select "New Meeting" and then explicitly make it a Teams meeting. New meetings created in Teams do include a Teams link - but isn't that what you would expect?

[dead]

Re: Microsoft faces antitrust scrutiny from the EU over Teams, Office 365

#78

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

pyrale wrote: post #54
veave wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"massive ad campaigns" is hardly an antitrust matter. Chrome ate Firefox and IE back in the day because it was monumentally better, technologically speaking.

> Chrome ate Firefox and IE back in the day because it was monumentally better, technologically speaking. The difference between Firefox and IE was orders of magnitude larger than the difference between Chrome and Firefox. The explosive growth from Chrome can't be explained just by it being better than competition, or Firefox would have replaced IE in 6 months earlier. The real explanation is that Chrome benefited fr…

Chrome had an ad on the Google homepage! (which is not for sale).

And at the top of basically every search in FF, they recommended Chrome.

Re: Microsoft faces antitrust scrutiny from the EU over Teams, Office 365

#79

Post by omk »

Interop compliance should be a thing. Enterprise customers are missing the plot here. Please ask your software vendors to support interoperability. Example - Outlook should support/declare standard interfaces for video calling meeting links from other products. I see the need for a body for enterprise integration standards. Please help me such a body if there already is one.

I look specifically for something of the likes for Enterprise Integration Act of 2002 for software vendors.

Re: Microsoft faces antitrust scrutiny from the EU over Teams, Office 365

#80

Post by kfk »

teekert wrote: post #76

Honestly, it just works so well. I get the argument, I’ve also seen the decline of Slack as Teams became the default, and normally I’d be pissed. But MS365 is just incredible value for money. Even on Linux in Edge mostly it feels like a no brainer for any company.

Maybe short term, but long term I am really not that convinced any longer. Forcing the UI approach everywhere has a cost, these tools are terrible for operations. You can automate code testing, deployment and ops and have really good operations as a consequence. You will never be able to do that with spreadsheets or more horrible stuff like Power Apps. Just see how many millions of people are hired to manage all these UI clicky things offshore and how much mess it creates for business ops.
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