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Firefox has surpassed Chrome on Speedometer

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Re: Firefox has surpassed Chrome on Speedometer

#481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many cores was laptop benchmark running on?

I believe the CPU is 4 core, JavaScript is single threaded (multi-callstack) so you only get 1 logical CPU core.

I thought so, but wasn't sure.

That makes me super suspicious of 1.4B op/s. Surely Firefox isn't accessing the DOM in ~2 CPU cycles?

Re: Firefox has surpassed Chrome on Speedometer

#482
post #18
post #6

That chart suggests massive improvements since the beginning of this year. Can anyone explain how this was achieved? What precisely has changed?

In the Firefox Nightly blog, there is some discussion of the performance improvements they've delivered in each release: https://blog.nightly.mozilla.org For example: https://blog.nightly.mozilla.org/2023/04/14/dropping-the-ban... > The two big jumps are from these two fixes. Great job, Performance Team! https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1444491 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1815069

> Starting from Firefox 112, users can now search for text inside the about:addons page (through the usual associated keyboard shortcuts, e.g. Ctrl-F and ‘/’) – Bug 1499500

_Finally_. It's only been _years_ that I haven't been able to search through my (admittedly far too big) list of disabled add-ons to find the one I want and turn it on.

Now we just need the collection limit on Firefox nightly removed. It only fetches the first page of 50 addons in a collection. I add things to my collection any time it seems useful, and keeping a collection in sync with what's being used across _seven_ browsers on two devices is difficult (I use multiple browsers on Android the way I use multiple browser windows on desktop; extensions usually only get installed in the workspace I actually need them for, so each install has a slightly different set of extensions and slightly different settings)

Re: Firefox has surpassed Chrome on Speedometer

#483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering this as a possibility is anything than "fundamentally disrespectful and ignorant". I've known lots of developers who thought that some broken, slow, erratic, or stupid, program or OS behavior is the normal, because that's what they've been used to. They could be great programmers too, they just didn't venture much outside the stuff they used. As for the diatribe, I don't care for this recent trend of perc…

One other possibility is that I know what scroll lag is, don't see it in Firefox on my devices, and you really don't want to accept that for some reason. So much so you double-down on your out-of-the-blue speculation about my mental state. People also have petit mal seizures, and that could also explain not seeing lag. Or perhaps an eye problem. Or maybe I'm a paid shill for Mozilla. Why not propose these as well? It…

Sorry, but this reaction has little to do with my comment. I didn't do any "speculation about your mental state", except to the degree that saying that someone can be so used to a certain program behavior/lag/etc that they consider it normal describes a "mental state".

>One other possibility is that I know what scroll lag is, don't see it in Firefox on my devices"

Yes, that's "one other" possibility.

Now, can we also entertain the possibility I suggested as something that one can't just rule out in advance, and that one would be OK in suggesting could also be the case?

I don't know you, have not met you, and I don't speak about you as a person. I made a general observation about what could be the case when someone says what you said. Another commenter also corroborated having seen this in the wild (assuming it even needs corroboration). It's hardly something that doesn't happen. And because I'm a somewhat insulted by your tone, notice how I didn't even said anything about you directly. I wrote:

"Don't forget the other possibility: someone using Firefox having internalized this lag as "normal behavior".

The rest, you brought into this. Enough is enough. Over and out.

Re: Firefox has surpassed Chrome on Speedometer

#484
post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But I completely trust Firefox on the password issue, to the point that I let it generate them for me. Not that I don't trust them but I always recommend using a dedicated PW manager like KeePassXC which is FOSS and has been security audited, plus it gives you full control over where you get to store your PWs and how they're secured and generated.

To be fair, Firefox is also FOSS, contains an integrated password manager with extraordinarily well-integrated browser compatibility, and by opting to use a master password to encrypt or decrypt the store also gives you control over securitization, storage location, and generation. Not to say that KeePassXC isn’t useful if you want even more fine-grained controls, but it seems like in the > Use password in browser Us…

> adding a second component you need to trust

I'd even say "adding a second vendor you need to trust". Yes, these days there seems to be a strong drive to just get a big package out of a single hand. Like having the browser closely tied to the OS. I don't like it. I prefer to choose the individual parts as i see fit. Keepass and some bit of custom sync, in this case. Now, in the same vein I expect MS & Google making it easy to support different browsers, I'd want Mozilla making it easy to integrate other password managers. I'd love to be corrected, but afaik the "password manager with extraordinarily well-integrated browser compatibility" doesn't offer any way or API to connect my keepass with it. Its only for Mozilla's own stuff. Not the open, user controlled system i'd love Firefox to be.

The Firefox Android Addon system is even worse... only a very short list of pre-approved extensions are available. With the escape hatch for devs requiring some stupid online-account. Sorry, but how is that different from an App store without side-loading?

Still recommend using Firefox, since it is the best we have. But yeah, i don't like the less and less open direction apparently chosen by Mozilla. And wonder if not being a good role model will hurt them down the line...

Re: Firefox has surpassed Chrome on Speedometer

#485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing I've noticed since I started using Sideberry extension (a different/better take on Tree Style Tabs) is that after a day or two, the whole tab panel I separated specifically for HN tends to accumulate 100+ tabs. Having them laid out vertically in tiny font makes this apparent in a way that the regular tab bar doesn't. Fortunately, I also habituated the simple behavior of "If I realize I have a lot of HN tabs…

What makes Sidebery better than TST? I'm consider trying it, but I don't want to lose all of my TST tabs.

I switched to Sidebery a couple of months ago, and I find that it's somewhat better at restoring trees (though that could just be luck). I feel it's a bit more responsive, but these days I trim my tabs a bit more aggresive than I used to so my TST memories are somewhat biased.

I was surprised at how decent it converted TST tabs, but I can't remember how low my bar was; maybe try a new profile?

One thing I'm finding really nice in Sidebery though that TST can't do, is that I can create a parent node that is not attached to a specific page (via grouping).

Panels I'm undecided on. They seem useful, but they also seem like a bandaid over window management tools. One problem I'm having is that they don't restore, and all the tabs go back to the main panel. That may be some setting I toggled though.

Re: Firefox has surpassed Chrome on Speedometer

#486
post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm old and I code for a living, I have maybe at most a dozen tabs open on any day. I can't imagine needing 80 but now I see why chrome has that new search tabs drop down.

I usually have 600 tabs across several windows and desktops. Doesn't hurt performance if you have 64G or more so the real question is "why not?". Switching to an open tab using title text search is way faster than opening a bookmark

Hard for me to say, I guess I feel better not using more memory than needed, I think my security surface may less than it would be with a lot of tabs open but don't hold me to that as researched opinion, it isn't, can't think of anything else though.

Re: Firefox has surpassed Chrome on Speedometer

#487

There was a time when Firefox felt a lot slower than Chromium, but for a few years now it's been close enough (even if still somewhat slower) to not bother me, while Firefox clearly offers superior functionality and much better performance under high load. The last time Chromium has felt attractive compared to Firefox was a really long time ago. Glad to see it moving in the right direction still.

No other browser has something like container tabs. Temporary Containers is an excellent extension to make each new tab its own isolated browser session too. First Party Isolation is 1 thing, but Chrome cannot do containers.

Safari will get that feature in iOS 17/macOS Sonoma.

Re: Firefox has surpassed Chrome on Speedometer

#488
post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except people really do internalize lag as "normal behavior". Back when PC monitors were stuck at 60Hz, people would unironically claim that "the human eye can't see more than 60 fps". Of course they changed their tune after experiencing lower input lag

I agree that the human eye can see higher than 60Hz, especially in the peripheral vision where VR research shows we need at least 90Hz to not get sick and 120Hz works better. That said, there is something to be said for modern applications just running way below the limits of the refresh rate of our screens: https://twitter.com/jmmv/status/1671670996921896960

I saw that thread and could not relate. Both my desktop (5800x3d/64GB/4090/4K120) and laptop (M2 Pro/32GB/3K120) are just as snappy as that 600MHz machine. More importantly, my machines stay snappy under more demanding workloads which that old machine can't do.

In the next tweet he compares it to a stock Surface Go 2 (quad-core i5 processor at 2.4GHz, 8GB RAM, SSD) and seems to be surprised that it performs like crap. His 600MHz CPU is sufficient to get decent input lag from NT 3.51 which lists a 25 MHz CPU as it's minimum spec just as my machines get decent input lag from Windows/macOS which list a 1.2 GHz CPU as the minimum spec.

I know clock speed is a bad metric, but you get the point. Your hardware needs to be well above the minimum spec by an order of magnitude if you want acceptable latency

Re: Firefox has surpassed Chrome on Speedometer

#489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget the "basic attention tokens" (are we still doing crypto?)

It’s an interesting concept tbf. I immediately disable it tho but I won’t shit on the idea cuz it’s at least a start

the general discussion about crypto aside, if the genuine purpose had been to faciliate direct payments the obvious solution would have been to integrate some currency like Ethereum or Bitcoin, not pre-mined Brave Bucks, which is effectively like "paying" your users in your own quasi worthless gift cards.

Re: Firefox has surpassed Chrome on Speedometer

#490

Firefox is a great browser and Mozilla is a (generally) great organization. It's my daily driver on all my devices (except my TV ha), it's fast and has great plugins that also work in mobile. Philosophically I'm very much a "root for the underdog" type of person so it makes me happy that way, too. Only very rarely (every few months) am I forced to use Chrome for a site - and in my view, that's a huge ding on the site…

As for sites that don't work in FireFox, here's a huge one: Office365 does not support FireFox on MacOS[0]. Mostly it works, but some things unfortunately don't. For instance, my employer's Teams site just doesn't render at all in FF. [0]: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/which-browsers-wo...

Do you know what features Firefox is missing on MacOS?
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