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Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

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Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't know.

But you do, it sounds like. Enlighten us.

I'm not claiming to know anything. I'm just asking that those who do make such claims be a little less gnomic in their commentary, so that the rest of us can evaluate whether or not you're talking nonsense.

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#522
In my home country of South Africa the department of education decided the best way to deal with high failure rates among students with maths was to lower the bar by introducing a "maths literacy" course and allowing people to take it instead of proper maths.

Unsurprisingly, it was a bit of a disaster.

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#523
post #494
post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the reason they're not all getting competitive scores with good shots at college is because advanced math (being intrinsically negative/evil) is ruining it I ... I don't understand. This is literally the craziest conspiracy theory I've ever heard. Here's the thing: if a shadow cabal of lizard-people were actually using space lasers to mind control everyone into thinking the Earth is round so we never discover their…

I don’t know. I have met plenty of people during my life who didn’t like math. Would they vote to remove Calculus from high school curriculums, if they believed it would level the playing field? Yes, and without blinking. >> Such a plot may even make a decent movie. A “plausible” one, yes. Incidentally, have you noted how movies don’t ever have any actual hard science, and they never require mathematical thinking on…

> movies don’t ever have any actual hard science, and they never require mathematical thinking on their viewership

Um, no, I haven't noticed that. In fact I've seen "this movie is based on hard science!" as being a generally positive selling point for movies, especially sci-fi. I also don't really understand your point: movies and pop novels generally do well when they require very little thinking of any kind. They don't require musical thinking or spatio-temporal thinking or logical thinking or kinesthetic thinking or intrapersonal thinking either. Nor do most of our passtimes. That does not make them anti-intellectual.

> our culture-makers

Who?

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I experienced this first hand. In 9th grade, to accelerate from Geometry to Algebra 1 (10th grade) you needed a 95% on the exam, which was 1 hour long and around 90 questions. And this was despite taking Algebra 1 and 2 at a certified private school with UC/CSU credit that the C-suites of Tech companies send their kids to.

Why would you accelerate from geometry to algebra 1? Do you mean algebra 2? My understanding is that at PAUSD they had two tests, one part that measured if you understood the core curriculum, and another that was more along the lines of brain teasers/math competition problems. You had to pass both (many passed the first but not the second). One issue was that the district seemed to cherry pick students to let them th…

Haha yep, I meant to accelerate to Algebra 2 in 9th grade.

> another that was more along the lines of brain teasers/math competition problems. You had to pass both (many passed the first but not the second)

Same with my district. I attended a HS that is a peer to Gunn here in the Bay Area.

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#525
post #166

Math major here. Go for it CA. The current "STEM pipeline" is garbage and underserving. A larger populace not excluded from the pipeline (because it wont exist) and not being turned off by math before high school is actually a step in the right direction. It will take an economy the size of CA to upend things, and they need to be upended. If it's progressive to have a larger base of the mathematically literate, then…

Can you speak to how much you and your peers think early depth of exposure matters compared to confidence in the basics?

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#526

This is the way. Teach kids more, not less. Ask more of them, not less. If you need to lengthen the school day and school year to do so, do it. Do it now. "So what should we do instead? Dallas came up with an answer: Teach kids more math instead of teaching them less. In 2019, Dallas Independent School District implemented a new equity policy that encouraged many more people to take honors math classes: Many capable…

Lengthen the school _year_ sure, but I'm skeptical that lengthening the school _day_ won't have, at best, mixed effects, especially given all the studies on sleep etc.

Kids need time to free roam and just be. Always being fed more information in controlled environments is not good for the psyche or their creativity.

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#527
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what I'm most excited for in LLMs. GPT4 Code Interpreter was created by taking the Base Model GPT4 + Layer of programming questions. I hope they do the same for a math tutor model or open up the base model for others to do so.

How does that follow from GP’s point? If remote interaction with a human doesn’t quite measure up to face-to-face interaction, how does an LLM improve upon that?

Major difference between a personalized tutor LLM and remote teaching an entire classroom.

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#528
post #516
post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to keep my attention for almost 8 hours. And generally a lot less and that's with coffee and generally being able to get up and stretch my legs. And, while the situation is much different, I've become a fan of shorter presentations, meetings, etc. ADDED: I often think I couldn't handle high school today.

Looking back on high school, no wonder I was so damn bad at it and hated it so much. And depressed all the time. And probably picked up SAD that took me a decade beyond it to shake. I'd quit a job as soon as I could find another, if it demanded of me what high school did. Hell, I'd quit based on the consistent 10+ hour days and constant due-tomorrow deadlines, let alone the rest of it like the before-the-sun's-up sta…

Unfortunately for a lot of people work is probably a lot more like high school than we might wish. But, yeah, in college I mostly attended class, some I genuinely enjoyed more than others, spent a lot of time on extracurricular activities/sports which is where I generally formed lifelong friendships (and developed a lot of the skills I use day to day)--and squeaked through. And, as the alumni donations person I've been a friend of for almost 40 years who works for $SCHOOL likes to remind me, I've done well and $SCHOOL taught me a lot in general. And I've had a good career. Luck has played a role.

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#529
post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> with the goal of improving opportunity for all I'm chatting with some friends who are parents in the Bay Area. Their admittedly very Californian response is that at least this should reduce competition for college spots. (Their kids are obviously going to get tutoring.)

Don't worry. DEI programs have this covered as well. Stop using standardized tests to get in. And then just aim for the perfect "socially desirable" mix. Regardless of ability.

Can someone explain how DEI programs got so embeded despite being flagrantly regressive?

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#530

Disclaimer: European. Is it not strange how in an article arguing from otherwise a very egalitarian, leftist viewpoint, when it discusses how students perform given more or less difficult classes, it somehow thinks the most relevant statistic is the race of the students? (Approximately, even, because American race designation is kinda weird anyway.) Sure, socio-economic circumstances are correlated with race. (Unfort…

The USA is currently obsessed with race, and this influences all discussions. I agree that this topic could be more accurately and inclusively framed as how to improve outcomes for low income students, or children with absentee/incarcerated parents, or children of addicts. Unfortunately, some people care much more about racial outcomes than they do about any of those I mentioned. The point of the racial framing IS to…

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