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The force that shapes everything around us: Parking
651–660 of 683 posts
Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking
#652[dead]
Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking
#653Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm becoming increasingly convinced a significant portion of HN comments are made by folks who spend the barest minimum of time to post a reply. This might be one of those cases where random links were copy pasted without consideration for the actual claims.
> This might be one of those cases where random links were copy pasted without consideration for the actual claims. Or it could be because the same silly tropes about urban living are trotted out regularly (which is why Oh the Urbanity made their video) and some of us counter them with the same silly replies we've posted numerous times before. There are a number of examples in the posted links that are not "smaller h…
The links clearly contain a significant portion of examples that undermine your own claims. Whether it also contains a portion of examples that support them is not something I addressed in the prior comment.
> * https://cheddar.com/media/why-american-yards-are-shrinking
> Small and big things are found in both cities and suburbs.
This seems like a non-sequitur, how does this relate at all to my comment?
Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking
#654Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think many people are truly anti-car activists. Just that we need to redimension their absolute centrality to so many policies and budgets. I'm involved in pro-housing politics and it's just amazing how many people are like "well, ok, sure, people need a place to live and all, but let's think FIRST about where to store the automobiles. If that works out, then I guess we can build some housing". They don't say…
I think it's not just about storing the vehicles, it's also about making your life miserable in a 2 hour commute going to a 3 hour commute. There IS more space in the united states, believe it or not.
It's not like getting rid of cars will make commute faster.
My friend (working in biology research) lived in England for a few years, and had 2+ hour commute by public transport. He was married, so both he and his wife had to find the jobs, and one of them had to end up with the large commute...
Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking
#655Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think it's not just about storing the vehicles, it's also about making your life miserable in a 2 hour commute going to a 3 hour commute. There IS more space in the united states, believe it or not.
Since there is more space, you'd expect that the market would allocate more of it for parking where needs be and that you don't need the government dictating parking minimums. Also, not all space is equal: even in the US, well-connected space with lots of amenities like the downtowns of cities is not infinite.
The real issue is people not knowing where to move. They go in google and search for top towns in the united states, and a bunch of city-data articles come up and next thing you know those drivable/parkable towns like Bozeman, Flagstaff, Bend, Grand Junction, Asheville (or Ashland for that matter) all become bogged down by massive population influxes. I'm talking like 2x 3x population boom in the last 5 to 10 years. There's no way these towns can't go from "Strongtown" status to homeless everywhere and clogged up roads if people can't get off google and find something new without google telling them something is hip.
Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking
#656Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Parking is impactful but is ultimately shaped by human preferences that are revealed by the choices people make. This is completely untrue. It is shaped by the profit-seeking behaviors of car manufacturers. In general, when you think a phenomenon is due to "the choices people make" (especially in the US), it probably is not.
Sorry but your posts sounds like a well rehearsed cliche you pulled out rather than a response to my comment. I intentionally cited an example of someone having access to great density and transit (NYC) but making a different choice. The Toyota motor corporation doesn't seem to be in the mix on my decision here. Do you have something to elaborate here? As for "especially in the US..." part, really? On simple Googling…
> I intentionally cited an example of someone having access to great density and transit (NYC) but making a different choice
...Did you? I read "you can live in NYC car-free, but many (most?) people move out to the burbs once they have a family", which is not that. It is a claim which ignores:
1. the fact that "many" vs "most" can be colossal - "many" could be 1%.
2. housing being cheaper in the suburbs, which is pretty important for people raising children on a budget
Regarding car ownership... that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the auto industry's lobbying to criminalize pedestrianism (jaywalking is a crime invented to sell cars), to rip out existing transit infrastructure, to block the development of new transit infrastructure (this still happens today lol), to inundate and normalize the idea of car = freedom (even though it's the opposite for day-to-day use) to the public so that we forget we even used to have public transit, to lobby for zoning laws that literally outlaw any kind of city planning that makes it possible to survive without a car in almost the entire continent.
Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking
#657Earlier quoted context omitted.
Don't you feel confined to your little area? In the weekend my wife and I drove out to a rural hike, 40mins out of town. I couldn't imagine giving up that kind of convenience and missing those kinds of opportunities. What if you don't live near a pool? Your kids just don't learn to swim? My local pool is a 15 minute drive, but a harrowing cycle route.
Note OP, but I'll try. In the weekend my wife and I drove out to a rural hike, 40mins out of town. How do local tourists get to that hike? Probably buses or trains, which in decent systems are usually competitive with vehicles. It's how I did hikes in the rural Himalayas and Latin America. What if you don't live near a pool? You build the pools where people live. They live closer together in cities designed before ca…
I lived in a country like that. The "rural hike" was a Big Deal: you'd wake up early, pack your lunches carefully, take a bus, then train, then another train, and eventually arrive. Then hike for a nice, long time (having hike time Compared to that, now every time I drive to a remote hike it blows my mind how much stuff gets done -- the distance is the same, but it's just a long-ish morning trip. You can hike for a bit, then get back home, get groceries on the way, have lunch, and have the whole evening free. And you are not limited to destinations next to the train line either!
(One thing I miss however is the ability to enter into the forest on one train station, and exit on another one. It's pretty nice when you don't have to do a loop)
Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking
#658Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Parking is impactful but is ultimately shaped by human preferences that are revealed by the choices people make. This is completely untrue. It is shaped by the profit-seeking behaviors of car manufacturers. In general, when you think a phenomenon is due to "the choices people make" (especially in the US), it probably is not.
> > Parking is impactful but is ultimately shaped by human preferences that are revealed by the choices people make. > This is completely untrue. It is shaped by the profit-seeking behaviors of car manufacturers. That's a wild claim, how would you substantiate it? It's partially true, of course, manufacturers (or anything) lobby for their self-interest. But your claim is that it is completely untrue that people have…
> A lot of people much prefer living in a large space with land than squeezed into a high-rise.
But it doesn't really matter what they want, because their cities have already decided that those large lots are the only thing legally available to them on the vast majority of land and that commercial building can't be built nearby enough to walk to for the most part. There is also definitely a non-zero amount of people who only prefer that style of living because they've never experienced any other kind.
Finally, I will point out that "a large space" vs "squeezed into a high rise" is a false dichotomy for two reasons.
#1 is that apartments can be large, and standalone houses or duplexes can be small.
#2 is that high rises and SFHs aren't the only kinds of homes that are possible. the fact that such an argument is so often made is evidence of how effective the propaganda has been, that most Americans don't even know there are other options they could actually have. (Apologies if you're not American, that's definitely an assumption because this is such a common opinion here)
Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking
#659Earlier quoted context omitted.
> > Parking is impactful but is ultimately shaped by human preferences that are revealed by the choices people make. > This is completely untrue. It is shaped by the profit-seeking behaviors of car manufacturers. That's a wild claim, how would you substantiate it? It's partially true, of course, manufacturers (or anything) lobby for their self-interest. But your claim is that it is completely untrue that people have…
> A lot of people much prefer living in a large space with land than squeezed into a high-rise. But it doesn't really matter what they want, because their cities have already decided that those large lots are the only thing legally available to them on the vast majority of land and that commercial building can't be built nearby enough to walk to for the most part. There is also definitely a non-zero amount of people…
> But it doesn't really matter what they want
I was responding to the comment that it "is completely untrue" that there are "human preferences".
Of course people have preferences. Not only is it not an edge case to have preferences, it's the norm.
The idea that everyone who wants a house has been brainwashed by the car manufacturer lobby is quite an extreme position.
> their cities have already decided that those large lots are the only thing legally available
Where is this happening? Never seen that (but obviously I haven't lived everywhere).
Here in California lots are smaller and smaller all the time, in many urban areas a large lot can't be had for any money anymore.
Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking
#660Earlier quoted context omitted.
> A lot of people much prefer living in a large space with land than squeezed into a high-rise. But it doesn't really matter what they want, because their cities have already decided that those large lots are the only thing legally available to them on the vast majority of land and that commercial building can't be built nearby enough to walk to for the most part. There is also definitely a non-zero amount of people…
> But it doesn't really matter what they want I was responding to the comment that it "is completely untrue" that there are "human preferences". Of course people have preferences. Not only is it not an edge case to have preferences, it's the norm. The idea that everyone who wants a house has been brainwashed by the car manufacturer lobby is quite an extreme position. > their cities have already decided that those lar…
> I was responding to the comment that it "is completely untrue" that there are "human preferences".
Ok, but I never said that
> Here in California lots are smaller and smaller all the time
Good, that means zoning laws are changing to allow variation