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The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

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Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#191

Post by theossuary »

standyro wrote: post #146
staticman2 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"- Your access to crazy advanced cancer treatments that are making progress at almost miraculous paces" If things were improving "exponentially" like you claim, our lifespan would be accelerating and these "miraculous" treatments would allow us to live 100s of years. What's actually happening is our lifespan is not increasing, and in some years has been decreasing. >>maybe you're depressed But if these "miraculous" "…

When I was a child in the early 90s, the likelihood they gave my mother to survive leukemia was slim to none. It was essentially a death sentence. And she died. Now if you get leukemia in 2023, it's something close to a 70% survival rate over 5 years with significantly better treatments. That seems dramatic to me.

Only if you have good insurance.

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#192

Post by landemva »

blibble wrote: post #141
kryptiskt wrote: post #40

The economic engine of the Eurozone, Germany, keeps stepping on the brakes because they are so obsessed with their competitiveness and running huge trade surpluses. If the German consumers would finally be allowed to a bigger share of all the gains from their productivity it would be good for the whole of Europe as the biggest problem is weak demand. But no, we can't have that because then their trade surplus would s…

if the euro didn't exist and the currencies were freely floating this would adjust itself automatically it's almost as if forcing completely disparate economies onto a one-size-fits-none currency with a single interest rate and no fiscal transfers was a monumentally stupid idea

The monetary union is flawed. It won't last another decade unless they somehow federalize the member state debt.

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#193

Post by adev_ »

whiddershins wrote: post #132
dougmwne wrote: post #73

Here’s a better comparison. The thing that really hurt the Eurozone was the 2011 - 2013 recession that the US did not experience. Plus there’s a slower growth rate even in the good times. https://freedomandprosperity.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/... That said, these numbers are very misleading and do not show well what a person’s life looks like in the US. By my own anecdotal estimation, in the EU low and medium in…

[flagged]

> People in the South of France buy one espresso or one beer and nurse it for 2 hours while staring at the ocean.

This is currently quite hilarious to read.

Give them one million dollar and I can guarantee you they will still drink one expresso facing the sea for 2 hours.

It is just named being French (or Latin) and has nothing to do with wealth

Time is everything in life. In many cultures, being able to spend it doing nothing or something you enjoy is the greatest sign of wealth. Poor people do not have this luxury: they do have to work to survive.

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#194

Post by grayfaced »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #32
midasuni wrote: post #5

All “growth” in gdp seems to go to rich people. Normal people have seen stagnant wages and increased costs from the owners. Why should I care if gdp isn’t increasing when I don’t see any gains whether it does or not?

What about: - Your access to mRNA vaccines - Your access to cleaner air due to electric car adoption - Ditto for energy security and renewable sources of electricity - Your chance of dying in a car going down due to new safety features - Your access to crazy advanced cancer treatments that are making progress at almost miraculous paces - Your much improved ability to work from home, cutting out ~2 hours of commuting…

But in the period of the article (2008) things aren't as rosy as you paint. Car fatalities are up on a per mile basis. Life expectancy is flat (and turning down recently). Electric outages are up. Work-from-home is counter balanced by some pretty awful working standards for others (amazon).

By your metrics, it'd be hard to argue that things aren't getting worse in last decade. I'm not arguing things are worse now, just that you chose bad measures.

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#195

Post by fullshark »

gitfan86 wrote: post #187
fullshark wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comparing your life to tiktok celebrities is toxic but comparing it to the impoverished halfway around the world is healthy?

Right

They are both distorted perspectives, one I guess makes you appreciate your lot in life, the other makes you realize working for the man until you die/retire in old age kind of sucks.

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#196

Post by blibble »

whiddershins wrote: post #132
dougmwne wrote: post #73

Here’s a better comparison. The thing that really hurt the Eurozone was the 2011 - 2013 recession that the US did not experience. Plus there’s a slower growth rate even in the good times. https://freedomandprosperity.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/... That said, these numbers are very misleading and do not show well what a person’s life looks like in the US. By my own anecdotal estimation, in the EU low and medium in…

[flagged]

> If we are doing anecdotes, I can do this all day.

meanwhile no-one in Europe dies in medical bankruptcy or has to worry about health insurance premiums/deductibles, or daily mass shootings

I'd rather have a slightly smaller steak

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#197

Post by [deleted] »

mrb wrote: post #96

Note this chart shows nominal dollars, not PPP-adjusted. The EU has certainly kept up with the US when looking at PPP GDP from 2008 to 2022: US grew from $14.8T to $25.5T EU grew from $14.3T to $24.3T What that means is that the prices of goods are inflated in the US compared to similar goods in the EU. That's all. Want something interesting? Look at China who grew from $10.0T to $30.3T over the same period (!) Sourc…

[deleted]

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#198

Post by carlosjobim »

futureshock wrote: post #89
tinus_hn wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I’d like to point out that the open door policy to refugees came because Europe was trying to escape the demographic trap and the collapse of the social safety net. The hope was that young refugees would become net positive GDP contributors for decades, an idea borrowed from the US. If that has failed, it’s due to a failure of integration. Europe can actually be quite a racist place and in many ways the US is better…

That's just untrue. Open door for refugees has always been motivated by humanitarian reasons by European rulers. Otherwise other immigrants would do just as fine or better.

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#199

Post by umeshunni »

cypress66 wrote: post #167
janalsncm wrote: post #158

This is a bit of a frame trap. Here’s another metric: ==2021== Life expectancy in EU: 80 Life expectancy in US: 76 ==Rolling back to 2008== Life expectancy in EU: 79 Life expectancy in US: 78 What’s the point? Maybe GDP isn’t the most important indicator. The US can double it’s GDP by making healthcare more expensive and extracting every last dime from the elderly, but can it actually improve quality of life for peop…

Most of that life expectancy gap is due to obesity I'd guess.

Most of it is due to the opioid crisis in the US afaik.

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#200

Post by dogma1138 »

kranke155 wrote: post #182
dogma1138 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it does not, PPP is calculated based on a basket of 3000 fungible goods and services as well as other costs such as major infrastructure construction projects. It has zero account for quality or outcomes. It doesn’t care if you have access to healthy foods, it just cares how much would X calories costs, it doesn’t care what is the quality of the housing stock or the outcomes of your healthcare system. You can very…

I know people who lived in the USSR in the 1970s and missed it.

Good for them, I know plenty others who didn’t including my entire family.

That still isn’t the point, the quality of life in the USSR wasn’t a close 2nd to the US in fact when the USSR economy started to fall apart in the late 70’s and 80’s it too switched to PPP because hey our bread is cheap even if you need to stand in line to get it.

And Guyana today isn’t a better place to live in than France or Canada, and Bulgaria is definitely a 1000 times better place to live in than Russia.

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