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The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

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Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#141

Post by blibble »

kryptiskt wrote: post #40

The economic engine of the Eurozone, Germany, keeps stepping on the brakes because they are so obsessed with their competitiveness and running huge trade surpluses. If the German consumers would finally be allowed to a bigger share of all the gains from their productivity it would be good for the whole of Europe as the biggest problem is weak demand. But no, we can't have that because then their trade surplus would s…

if the euro didn't exist and the currencies were freely floating this would adjust itself automatically

it's almost as if forcing completely disparate economies onto a one-size-fits-none currency with a single interest rate and no fiscal transfers was a monumentally stupid idea

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#142

Post by louthy »

slibhb wrote: post #23
midasuni wrote: post #5

All “growth” in gdp seems to go to rich people. Normal people have seen stagnant wages and increased costs from the owners. Why should I care if gdp isn’t increasing when I don’t see any gains whether it does or not?

The economy doubling in size helps most people even if the resulting wealth is unevenly distributed. Goods, services, technologies, jobs, etc are good.

Something D O O economics

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#143

Post by WantonQuantum »

whiddershins wrote: post #132
dougmwne wrote: post #73

Here’s a better comparison. The thing that really hurt the Eurozone was the 2011 - 2013 recession that the US did not experience. Plus there’s a slower growth rate even in the good times. https://freedomandprosperity.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/... That said, these numbers are very misleading and do not show well what a person’s life looks like in the US. By my own anecdotal estimation, in the EU low and medium in…

[flagged]

Citations needed. Many citations.

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#144

Post by rootusrootus »

staticman2 wrote: post #80
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about: - Your access to mRNA vaccines - Your access to cleaner air due to electric car adoption - Ditto for energy security and renewable sources of electricity - Your chance of dying in a car going down due to new safety features - Your access to crazy advanced cancer treatments that are making progress at almost miraculous paces - Your much improved ability to work from home, cutting out ~2 hours of commuting…

"- Your access to crazy advanced cancer treatments that are making progress at almost miraculous paces" If things were improving "exponentially" like you claim, our lifespan would be accelerating and these "miraculous" treatments would allow us to live 100s of years. What's actually happening is our lifespan is not increasing, and in some years has been decreasing. >>maybe you're depressed But if these "miraculous" "…

It's plausible that the world is demonstrably better in pretty much every way, but there is an overwhelming amount of propaganda telling us to believe otherwise.

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#145

Post by ChatGTP »

rafaelero wrote: post #116
mrtksn wrote: post #46

IMHO the west as a whole will need to re-consider its metrics. Europe, not only Eurozone, lag in absolute numbers of economic activity but the life quality is not that different from the US and arguably it’s even better depending on what is important for you. An appendicitis generates more economic activity in the US but Europeans die les from it. On the other hand, Europe does lag on post soviet era tech(that’s anyt…

Nobody said GDP equals quality of life, what are you talking about?

What is the point of GDP as a metric then? Who is the economy serving? Why have an economy if it's not improving quality of life to some extent.

GDP is most often used by the government of a single country to measure its economic health.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_domestic_product

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#146

Post by standyro »

staticman2 wrote: post #80
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about: - Your access to mRNA vaccines - Your access to cleaner air due to electric car adoption - Ditto for energy security and renewable sources of electricity - Your chance of dying in a car going down due to new safety features - Your access to crazy advanced cancer treatments that are making progress at almost miraculous paces - Your much improved ability to work from home, cutting out ~2 hours of commuting…

"- Your access to crazy advanced cancer treatments that are making progress at almost miraculous paces" If things were improving "exponentially" like you claim, our lifespan would be accelerating and these "miraculous" treatments would allow us to live 100s of years. What's actually happening is our lifespan is not increasing, and in some years has been decreasing. >>maybe you're depressed But if these "miraculous" "…

When I was a child in the early 90s, the likelihood they gave my mother to survive leukemia was slim to none. It was essentially a death sentence. And she died.

Now if you get leukemia in 2023, it's something close to a 70% survival rate over 5 years with significantly better treatments.

That seems dramatic to me.

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#147

Post by woooooo »

rafaelero wrote: post #116
mrtksn wrote: post #46

IMHO the west as a whole will need to re-consider its metrics. Europe, not only Eurozone, lag in absolute numbers of economic activity but the life quality is not that different from the US and arguably it’s even better depending on what is important for you. An appendicitis generates more economic activity in the US but Europeans die les from it. On the other hand, Europe does lag on post soviet era tech(that’s anyt…

Nobody said GDP equals quality of life, what are you talking about?

It tends to get thoughtlessly assumed, rather than argued or asserted.

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#148

Post by Alupis »

sangnoir wrote: post #118
Alupis wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're missing the point. Even the poor do better when there's more jobs available, more job mobility, more housing, more stores, etc. All things that are created by wealthy companies and individuals. Everyone, including our poorest, benefit from a growing economy. We just have to examine our average poverty-level person, and compare them to poverty-level persons of other nations to understand this point.

> Even the poor do better when there's more jobs available Only if those jobs offer a livable wage. If instead they are McJobs that result in workers spending more than they earn (e.g. SNAP), then poor people are doing worse, and it's a net-negative on society.

This misses the reason so-called McJobs don't pay a "living" wage. You're not supposed to earn a living wage doing zero skilled work. You're supposed to develop skills and move up in the working world.

Why are people stagnating instead of moving up? That's a really good question.

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#150

Post by Alupis »

tivert wrote: post #124
Alupis wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're missing the point. Even the poor do better when there's more jobs available, more job mobility, more housing, more stores, etc. All things that are created by wealthy companies and individuals. Everyone, including our poorest, benefit from a growing economy. We just have to examine our average poverty-level person, and compare them to poverty-level persons of other nations to understand this point.

> You're missing the point. No I'm not. I know exactly the point you were making. I'm disputing it. The problem is the devil is in the details, and both the tired metaphor and your defense of it leave those details unspecified.

You've offered zero details about why this is incorrect. You've just asserted the meme that it's "obviously wrong"...

There is no good faith argument that exists to prove this incorrect.

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