And yet with all that money you can’t buy European quality of life in the USA
Really depends on how you define quality of life.
The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X
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Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X
#92Earlier quoted context omitted.
OK, well how about we compare New England to Europe? Or just Connecticut and Massachusetts? If you start cutting out this and that country from the EU then you need to cut out Mississippi and Idaho from the US. People always compare the US holistically but conveniently pick and choose which part of the Eurozone they want when it benefits their argument.
Finland and Sweden and Denmark are countries though, just like US or say Mexico.
So we should not make any comparison to the US and the EU? Massachusetts has a larger population than Norway.
Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X
#93Earlier quoted context omitted.
Europe is densely populated in general but there are villages all over the place where you can have a large house like in an American suburb. I think cultural expectations are more defining, for example Turks are frustrated with the healthcare in Europe because they expect to see a specialist ASAP even for the smallest thing and they want antibiotics for it. In Germany you won’t get all the antibiotics you want unles…
I think as much as Americans like the idea of European healthcare systems, I think most of them would be appalled in practice. Not that it's inherently inferior, but part of the reason healthcare is so expensive in America is that Americans (perhaps a bit spoiled by our own prosperity) demand lots of care. My wife's sister saw specialists 11 different times last year because she was not happy with the advice. And I w…
Different expectation and I respect both approaches. I'm accustomed to the EU version of it and I expect the doctor to tell me what to do and my defence against bad advice is getting a second opinion.
In Turkey, where I lived for quite a while, the modus operandi is that you go to the hospital to demand something. If the government ones don't make you happy you go to the private one and they will pour all the tests you can handle.
Once I thought I'm having a heart attack and rushed to the ER in a private hospital. Turns out I'm just a bit dehydrated, so drinking water would do it but the doctor asked me if I would like an IV. I was appalled because my expectation is that if I need an IV the doc should just do it, he should't ask me. I asked if I need it, he said it's not necessary but can speed up the recovery. It turns out, Turks like to go to the hospital to get an IV when they don't feel very well, they just like that a professional is taking care of them even if they don't actually need a medical intervention and they will get better spontaneously as they rest and the private hospitals provide this service.
I like the European way better.
Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X
#94And yet with all that money you can’t buy European quality of life in the USA
The US is great as long as you are not poor. You don't have to be rich, just don't be poor.
Arguably it's probably worse to be poor in Europe than in the US. The amount of cash assistance a homeless, jobless person gets in France is almost half of the same benefit in the US.
But it's hard to get a 1:1 comparison because the data in Europe on things like homelessness is shockingly poor. Most of the major European cities have strong dispersion/anti-camping laws. Because homelessness is kept more out of sight in Europe, it doesn't draw as much attention.
Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's very difficult to argue in good faith "trickle-down" economics was/is a failure. A rising tide obviously raises all ships, including the nation's poorest. To create vast wealth generally requires vast resources, which requires vast amounts of people. Behemoths the size of Amazon, Walmart, Microsoft, Google, et al employ significant chunks of the population - and not just directly. Trickle-down doesn't mean every…
> A rising tide obviously raises all ships, including the nation's poorest. To throw a wrench in that tired metaphor: a rising tide may raise all ships, but a fat lot of good that does to the poor, if it's only the well-of that can afford to buy a boat.
You're missing the point.
Even the poor do better when there's more jobs available, more job mobility, more housing, more stores, etc. All things that are created by wealthy companies and individuals.
Everyone, including our poorest, benefit from a growing economy.
We just have to examine our average poverty-level person, and compare them to poverty-level persons of other nations to understand this point.
Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X
#96Note this chart shows nominal dollars, not PPP-adjusted. The EU has certainly kept up with the US when looking at PPP GDP from 2008 to 2022:
US grew from $14.8T to $25.5T
EU grew from $14.3T to $24.3T
What that means is that the prices of goods are inflated in the US compared to similar goods in the EU. That's all.
Want something interesting? Look at China who grew from $10.0T to $30.3T over the same period (!)
Sources: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.PP.CD?locat... https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.PP.CD?locat... https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.PP.CD?locat...
Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
No it doesn't. Growth in the economy has to increase real wages, and real wages need to keep pace with housing, food, healthcare, etc increases in order to be meaningful. More jobs are only good if they actually provide a living wage.
> More jobs are only good if they actually provide a living wage. This is false if you spend even a few seconds thinking about it. Not all jobs are intended to "live" off of. Most of your entry-level jobs were supposed to be for highschool and college kids working part time. The problem is we have more and more people never graduating out of entry level positions, and today we have folks demanding those entry level p…
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Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
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I’d like to point out that the open door policy to refugees came because Europe was trying to escape the demographic trap and the collapse of the social safety net. The hope was that young refugees would become net positive GDP contributors for decades, an idea borrowed from the US. If that has failed, it’s due to a failure of integration. Europe can actually be quite a racist place and in many ways the US is better…
The US’s secret sauce is that is an empire that can, will and does constantly project its massive military and clandestine power around the world to further its interests at all times, while never having to deal with any of its blowback. And then americans laugh at the EU welcoming refugees you created in the first place, or pretend the EU is socialist while laughing at its massive energy crisis caused by its completely batshit insane liberalized energy market. We are ruled by atlanticist neoliberals you put there in the first place.
Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X
#99Note this chart shows nominal dollars, not PPP-adjusted. The EU has certainly kept up with the US when looking at PPP GDP from 2008 to 2022: US grew from $14.8T to $25.5T EU grew from $14.3T to $24.3T What that means is that the prices of goods are inflated in the US compared to similar goods in the EU. That's all. Want something interesting? Look at China who grew from $10.0T to $30.3T over the same period (!) Sourc…
Thank you. Twitter is terrible when it comes to cherry picking stats out of context.
Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X
#100Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’d like to point out that the open door policy to refugees came because Europe was trying to escape the demographic trap and the collapse of the social safety net. The hope was that young refugees would become net positive GDP contributors for decades, an idea borrowed from the US. If that has failed, it’s due to a failure of integration. Europe can actually be quite a racist place and in many ways the US is better…
The US’s secret sauce is that is an empire that can, will and does constantly project its massive military and clandestine power around the world to further its interests at all times, while never having to deal with any of its blowback. And then americans laugh at the EU welcoming refugees you created in the first place, or pretend the EU is socialist while laughing at its massive energy crisis caused by its complet…
This is nonsense. Blaming it on US policy is insanely narrow, and ignores years of colonial interest from almost every European nation.