What’s the story on the actual research? Is it legit? I find it hard to believe talc causes cancer. Apparently the research is on asbestos-containing talc, and J&J claims their talc never contained asbestos? What am I missing?
You're missing that JJ probably doesn't have the many millions of lab tests for every talc batch sold to prove they're asbestos free. If they did they wouldn't be arguing they're asbestos free, they'd be proving it and suing the talc researchers for libel.
Johnson and Johnson sues researchers who linked talc to cancer
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Re: Johnson and Johnson sues researchers who linked talc to cancer
#272Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sounds like a good way for students facing huge student loan debt to discharge it in bankruptcy (just kidding, I know that's not something the US government would allow for anyone except well-connected corporate lobbyists etc.).
In a classic "what could possibly go wrong" move, long ago the federal government decided that you can't discharge student debt in bankruptcy, because if you could, then no one would lend education money (which is not collateralizable) and fewer people would go to college.
Re: Johnson and Johnson sues researchers who linked talc to cancer
#273Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Is a class action somehow impossible if they don't declare bankruptcy? Or they can't distribute money as easily as in a class action? The issue is that there might be multiple actions, and compensation might be used up byt the first one (eg, if the company was sent into bankruptcy by the first class action, then subsequent cases would be useless). This is a pretty reasonable argument IMHO. > Further, if your compan…
> Further, if your company produces products that kill or injure people, then why should we show any interest in maintaining that companies existence with odd legal hacks like this? > This seems fairly debatable. To be fair, we might not have some of the drugs many of us are prescribed to us if we just cancelled every company that ever hurt anyone with experimental drugs.
Re: Johnson and Johnson sues researchers who linked talc to cancer
#274Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s called having the courage of your convictions. Plenty of people live off of non profit salaries without having a wealthy spouse or even do public sector work.
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Re: Johnson and Johnson sues researchers who linked talc to cancer
#275Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s unrelated in structured and substance to “too big to fail”. Too big to fail implies catastrophic harm worse than the (unpalatable) steps necessary to prop something up. This argument is really exploring the line between “company did something harmful” and “company did something so harmful they should no longer exist”. I’m not arguing for either, but TBTF is unrelated.
I’m not sure I agree that the current argument is about whether the company did something so harmful they should no longer exist, but I agree that whatever it is, it is not the same as TBTF.
> Given that scenario, does the ethical math really work for ACME to be completely destroyed?
I agree that the broader conversation is not just about ceasing to exist, but this was the context of my comment.
Re: Johnson and Johnson sues researchers who linked talc to cancer
#276Re: Johnson and Johnson sues researchers who linked talc to cancer
#277Earlier quoted context omitted.
You should base your projection on net profits, not gross, given that these would be additional expenses (not considering tax effect). Johnson & Johnson net income for the twelve months ending March 31, 2023 was $12.724B, a 35.83% decline year-over-year. Johnson & Johnson annual net income for 2022 was $17.941B, a 14.07% decline from 2021. Johnson & Johnson annual net income for 2021 was $20.878B, a 41.89% increase f…
This does not really affect the overall picture - for decades of fraud, this is a paultry sum
Re: Johnson and Johnson sues researchers who linked talc to cancer
#278Re: Johnson and Johnson sues researchers who linked talc to cancer
#279Earlier quoted context omitted.
>In this case, filing for bankruptcy created fairness among victims, they did not have to be first or fifth to get the right damages, every victim was treated equal. It creates fairness among victims by removing their rights to seek higher damages via their own court cases. This "fairness" is only needed if the total amount of judgements exceeds what J&J can pay. In which case it is J&J which should be declaring bank…
> It creates fairness among victims by removing their rights to seek higher damages via their own court cases How is it fair if the first victim gets 10M in damages, but the 100,000th victim does not, given each lawsuit proceeds differently? It's obviously not a race, and getting less/more damages based on the order you filed a lawsuit is surely not the best way. (Damages via settlement or decided by jury). Even in t…
No they didn't.
> How is it fair if the first victim gets 10M in damages, but the 100,000th victim does not, given each lawsuit proceeds differently? It's obviously not a race, and getting less/more damages based on the order you filed a lawsuit is surely not the best way
I didn't claim that was an optimal procedure. But as of yet there is no risk of J&J not being able to pay future claims. Indeed, J&J are still financially secure enough to be paying out dividends to their shareholders.
> The problematic part would have been had the money been capped. It's not, evidently.
No, the problematic part is J&J's attempt to use a sham bankruptcy to force litigants against it to to settle through a single judge rather than continuing with regular court cases.
As I have said elsewhere, if bankruptcy is actually required here, then J&J should declare it themselves. They won't because then they'd have to stop paying dividends.
There is plenty of room for tort reform to malye things fairer. Sham bankruptcies and a texas two step is not the appropriate method to bring fairness to victims of a financially solvent company.
Hint, when the victims oppose legal maneuver that is supposed to "make things more fair for them" and the perpetrator supports it, then the legal maneuver probably isn't doing what it claims to be doing.
Re: Johnson and Johnson sues researchers who linked talc to cancer
#280As someone who did a PhD and published and read many papers (in ML) I believe vast majority of papers in ML are misleading. If in fact every paper that claims a better performance over state of the art was true we would have solved AI by now. You see all sorts of problems when you dig deeper into the technical details of peer reviewed publications (even in top tier conferences) including misleading baselines, statist…
We need a Journal of Medicore Results, or a Journal of Tried it and it Didn't Work. As with social media and society in general, only the most inflated of headlines gets attention causing the gold rush of hyped up results. Nothing can be published without the hype and hyperbole, which then sets the benchmark for the next round of hype.