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WordPress Playground: A WordPress that runs entirely in the browser

developer.wordpress.org

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Re: WordPress Playground: A WordPress that runs entirely in the browser

#201

Post by WhackyIdeas »

photomatt wrote: post #115
WhackyIdeas wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. The other day, I took my slow Wordpress server hosted at Vultr on bare metal (£200/pm) and put it on a server at £500 per month and even after doing all the performance tuning I could with MySQL and PHP I couldn’t notice a difference in speed when I was on the back-end where Cloudflare wasn’t caching it. I then tested on a lower performance server which costs £80 per month at Vultr and again couldn’t dete…

Just come to WP.com and we'll run it super-fast, auto-updated, and secure for $25/mo.

There is a worry that I have about switching to a company like yours…

What really happens if you decided you didn’t like the products a website sold?

…Would you give them the time to move and take their backups with then or would you immediately hit the delete button on their data?

These are the reasons we switched to self-hosted Wordpress in the beginning. You don’t need to be on HN for long each day to see the same stories being told continuously about how the big guys treat the wee people.

Re: WordPress Playground: A WordPress that runs entirely in the browser

#202

Post by 8n4vidtmkvmk »

bamfly wrote: post #55
8n4vidtmkvmk wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The infra cost can be very tiny tho. Digital ocean has 1 click installers for WordPress, which you can use for a few hours and then shutdown and only pay a few pennies.

Now you have to build or configure a system for spinning those up and down at the command of anonymous visitors to your website. Or eat the cost of running a whole bunch of them all the time. And test that system. And monitor it. And secure it (and no matter how well you do that, you're now exposed to a wider set of risks than you were if you hadn't built this thing). And do maintenance development as dumb crap happe…

I wasn't suggesting WP does it, just provides the CLI commands or instructions to do it.

The WASM solution is cool but I'm still skeptical that there aren't quirks and incompatibilities in there.

Re: WordPress Playground: A WordPress that runs entirely in the browser

#203

Post by sogen »

photomatt wrote: post #175
goldenkey wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does wordpress.com used a forked version? Last time I remember that the custom themes were limited for the hosted solution. Maybe this was for performance reasons?

On the business plan (25/mo) you can run any plugin or theme, or custom code. You also have full SSH/SFTP and wp-cli access.

Can it run custom plugins?

Re: WordPress Playground: A WordPress that runs entirely in the browser

#204

Post by wouldbecouldbe »

redox99 wrote: post #59
wouldbecouldbe wrote: post #32

Php & WordPress were fun. With that ugly php tag you could get pretty much everything working on the web. All you had to do was edit, save & refresh. No rebuild of code, server restart, compiling Just edit & save. Did it have the tendency to get ugly? Sure. But it was easy, quick and fast. Not every blog and needs a git flow, united, e2e, type-safe double encrypted dev environment. Both PHP & WordPress got shamed for…

> All you had to do was edit, save & refresh. No rebuild of code, server restart, compiling Just edit & save. The majority of webdev is either exactly like that, or effectively like that with very fast rebuilds/restarts. It's not really something unique to PHP. In fact in your modern stack you'd probably have autosave, and most importantly "fast refresh", so you don't need to manually refresh and you don't lose state…

Nah you don't yet it.

Nowadays there is so much build config you need 4gb just to run wepback.

Php is just a save of a file. That's it's.

So for instance we would use remote file save. Edit & save via ftp. Most editors have such a plugin. Then you could work remote easily.

But also hosting php is 10 times easier and stable then node. Php servers don't run stale or crash. Because there is no server.

Re: WordPress Playground: A WordPress that runs entirely in the browser

#205

Post by lioeters »

dboreham wrote: post #200
photomatt wrote: post #130

I tried to make a big deal about this in my State of the Word keynote in December 2022: https://wordpress.tv/2023/01/04/matt-mullenweg-state-of-the-... It kind of blew my mind as an engineer to see it work, and know all the layers that had to interact for that to happen. It's fun to see it blowing up on HN 6 months later! :) Thank you to everyone for checking it out.

It's very interesting to me since I have an interest in porting various hitherto "server-side" applications to run in-browser. Doubly interesting because it's the first real product I've seen running SQLite -- so far I've only seen toy demos. But, wondering about something -- poking around in the code a bit, and realizing I know next to nothing about present-day php, I realized this may be not using the "traditional"…

There is partial support for persistence, for browsers that have origin private file system (OPFS) implemented.

> OPFS is only supported in Chrome-based browsers at the moment like Edge, Android browser. Safari and Firefox users won't be able to benefit from this feature yet

Persistent Playground: Sync between MEMFS and OPFS - https://github.com/WordPress/wordpress-playground/pull/546

Re: WordPress Playground: A WordPress that runs entirely in the browser

#206

Post by scarecrowbob »

gnz11 wrote: post #195
photomatt wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm happy to pitch in and help migrate those university sites, we can get them on a WordPress stack that's much more stable and forward-compatible.

Going to go out on a limb here and say that a sales pitch doesn't address parent's comment...but it does seem to be implicitly acknowledge that Wordpress is too cumbersome to maintain and even host yourself.

As appealing as it is to think that if we just have more rigorous processes and infrastructure a crappy system will become more stable, it misses the point I was making.

We do have our sites on functional WP stacks. With enough caching, it's not super hard to make things work (until you hit some edge case with a custom theme/plugin that didn't anticipate a supposedly non-breaking change in the core).

Unfortunately, figuring out why the calendar plugin suddenly isn't producing a functional ical output for windows PCs or figuring out why the s3 offloading plugin has started timing out intermittently becomes a large time investment.

So it's kind of fun to suggest that the people who have the pleasure of servicing WP at a high level are just holding it wrong, but the reality is that there are a lot of talented and experienced people out here working on a platform that fundamentally sucks to work on.

It's not logically inconsistent that, on one hand, people chose it because it's an easy-to-implement solution whose benefit massively outweighs its TCO and, on the other hand, when it break or requires extension it's a pain in the ass for those of us charged with doing that work.

Re: WordPress Playground: A WordPress that runs entirely in the browser

#207

Post by EGreg »

rapnie wrote: post #168
EGreg wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok. Here it is: https://github.com/Qbix/Platform

Oh no. Still the mouse movement animation on the website? It made me not read further down the page.

I am very sure the Github page I linked to doesn’t have any mouse animations. It has a README right on the page, with all the info. It also lets you clone the code and try it out, watch videos and much more.

Did you purposely seek out a different page, see a mouse animation, and then announce to everyone that you did not read further down THAT page because you were distracted by an animation? It seems like a petty thing to announce, but OK.

Re: WordPress Playground: A WordPress that runs entirely in the browser

#208

Post by EGreg »

sylvinus wrote: post #124
EGreg wrote: post #92

The question is — how does your WebAssembly in the browser run a server that can listen for incoming requests and serve the page? I don’t get that part at all.

I think this is the part done with the Service Worker, which intercepts network requests: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Service_Wor...

But how can anyone other than the user actually access this server? Like if I serve wordpress off a phone?

Re: WordPress Playground: A WordPress that runs entirely in the browser

#209

Post by dboreham »

lioeters wrote: post #205
dboreham wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very interesting to me since I have an interest in porting various hitherto "server-side" applications to run in-browser. Doubly interesting because it's the first real product I've seen running SQLite -- so far I've only seen toy demos. But, wondering about something -- poking around in the code a bit, and realizing I know next to nothing about present-day php, I realized this may be not using the "traditional"…

There is partial support for persistence, for browsers that have origin private file system (OPFS) implemented. > OPFS is only supported in Chrome-based browsers at the moment like Edge, Android browser. Safari and Firefox users won't be able to benefit from this feature yet Persistent Playground: Sync between MEMFS and OPFS - https://github.com/WordPress/wordpress-playground/pull/546

Very interesting, but I don't think sync from MEMFS to OPFS will work for my use case :( Is there a reason why using OPFS directly from SQLite doesn't work?

Re: WordPress Playground: A WordPress that runs entirely in the browser

#210

Post by easyThrowaway »

judah wrote: post #100
Saris wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always found WordPress performance doesn't change much on lower vs higher end hardware. It seems to be limited by itself.

What's the answer to making WordPress sites faster? I too have tried better hardware, CDNs, plugins like WP Super Cache, and others means of optimizing. Very little impact. Is the problem PHP? I'm thinking of trying one of those plugins that convert the WordPress site to static web site. I'd imagine that'd have a big impact, at least for sites that don't need e.g. login, shopping carts, etc.

The problem is architectural.

Wordpress at its core execute most of its user-facing code trough an un-parallelizable, self-modifying single threaded queue, which has to be run at every page reload[1] and everything and anything will have to inject stuff in it. From handling your pictures in your media library, to checking your server can actually send mails, to managing your page and posts content and layout, everything goes trough it. It's also a system that doesn't really play ball very easily with most PHP accelerators outside of baseline PHP opcache.

You may have better luck using a static cache or memcached. Depending on the theme you're using (90% of what's available from envato themeforest, for example) the improvement will be negligible due to the impact of all the uncachable third-party jquery plugins that are usually included on a commercial theme.

All of the data you're accessing is also for the most part queried from two tables of a single database instance[2] which again handles everything from your mail configuration, page routing and redirection, page layout, contents, stored forms, etc. No sharding, load balancing is natively available. Heck, most WP hosted solutions run MySQL on the same instance running Apache and PHP.

Also the data is usually stored as serialized php values, which have to be parsed and reformatted, again, at every page load using the system described beforehand.

[1]https://github.com/WordPress/wordpress-develop/blob/6.2/src/...

[2]https://codex.wordpress.org/Database_Description

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