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A third of North America’s birds have vanished

nautil.us

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Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#111

Post by lazide »

jrwoodruff wrote: post #97
23B1 wrote: post #35

One thing I dislike the most about these problems – and the information/media/activism around them – is the "solutioning". Yes, we should recycle and reduce carbon emissions and learn to live in a more integrated fashion with earth. But the problem is so diffuse and requires substantive work against powerful forces (government, business, apathy). What I'd like to see more of, when presented with these sorts of proble…

The problem is we shouldn’t be working against the government on this. Problems like this are why governments exist, it needs to happen at that scale. Unfortunately, it seems like we’ve forgotten how to solve social problems of any significant scale.

Many folks don’t consider it a problem - let alone one they want to solve.

It’s working as intended, when you get out of the bubble.

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#112

Post by ZunarJ5 »

Blackstrat wrote: post #99

Why do we assume that the biosphere should remain largely unchanged? That it should or even could strikes me as extreme vanity. It never has. Long before humans, long before fossil fuels, etc. species came and went. Climate changed continuously. I’ve been watching this for most of my nearly 70 years, the population bomb, the coming ice age, global warming, the Club of Rome, and on and on. None of it ever happened. Fo…

Change isn't the problem. The velocity of the change is the problem.

https://www.nature.com/articles/nature08649

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#113

Post by mongol »

23B1 wrote: post #35

One thing I dislike the most about these problems – and the information/media/activism around them – is the "solutioning". Yes, we should recycle and reduce carbon emissions and learn to live in a more integrated fashion with earth. But the problem is so diffuse and requires substantive work against powerful forces (government, business, apathy). What I'd like to see more of, when presented with these sorts of proble…

In Sweden, the Eurasian Skylark has been in decline, due to loss of habitat. It thrives in high grass on the kind of land that is ploughed and used for agriculture. But you can now pay farmers for a "lark square". For 100 SEK for a year, about 10 USD, the farmer will leave a rectangle unplowed, which will benefit the Skylark. This photos illustrates "lark squares"

https://64.media.tumblr.com/8fc53eb231b08f8476b5a8f76eb20ef9...

https://www.lantmannen.se/44bdd3/siteassets/images/06-innova...

This initiative is supported by Birdlife Sweden and has had a proven effect.

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#114

Post by bmitc »

23B1 wrote: post #35

One thing I dislike the most about these problems – and the information/media/activism around them – is the "solutioning". Yes, we should recycle and reduce carbon emissions and learn to live in a more integrated fashion with earth. But the problem is so diffuse and requires substantive work against powerful forces (government, business, apathy). What I'd like to see more of, when presented with these sorts of proble…

Individuals cannot solve this. I leave trees up, dead or alive. I plant native plants. I remove invasive species. I only keep invasive bushes if they house birds. I don't spray for insects except around the base of my house, I don't kill off chipmunks, voles, squirrels, rabbits, etc.

How can this compete with the dozens of neighbors in a half-mile radius that have removed in excess of hundreds of trees, big ones like oak, pine, maple, hickory and up to five feet in diameter, and turn their yards into grass wastelands? I never even see my neighbors use most of their yards. How do you compete against that level of narcissisim and lack of empathy?

It is exhausting on me both physically and emotionally. There's no one I can call to get help with my own yard because every landscaper knows nothing about ecology and uses loud and polluting gas-powered machinery.

I am to the point where I consider my actions as pissing into the wind and spitting into the ocean. Seeing bees where I hadn't seen them before using native plants that I planted is amazingly fullfilling. But I know that it basically has no greater impact, and it is completely against the tide.

Unless governments take action and penalize corporations for the harm they've done and take measures to prevent further harm, we won't be able to stop what's coming.

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#115

Post by inconceivable »

jeffbee wrote: post #83
23B1 wrote: post #35

One thing I dislike the most about these problems – and the information/media/activism around them – is the "solutioning". Yes, we should recycle and reduce carbon emissions and learn to live in a more integrated fashion with earth. But the problem is so diffuse and requires substantive work against powerful forces (government, business, apathy). What I'd like to see more of, when presented with these sorts of proble…

"Bird-friendly yard" is probably the most counterproductive of these. Habitat loss is far and away the biggest problem that birds face. Anyone having a yard is the problem. People must learn to congregate in compact development forms and leave the land for the animals, if they care about having animals. Probably the only easy life change individuals can do is not eat meat and not buy ethanol. That would return tons o…

[flagged]

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#116

Post by hasbot »

jrwoodruff wrote: post #97
23B1 wrote: post #35

One thing I dislike the most about these problems – and the information/media/activism around them – is the "solutioning". Yes, we should recycle and reduce carbon emissions and learn to live in a more integrated fashion with earth. But the problem is so diffuse and requires substantive work against powerful forces (government, business, apathy). What I'd like to see more of, when presented with these sorts of proble…

The problem is we shouldn’t be working against the government on this. Problems like this are why governments exist, it needs to happen at that scale. Unfortunately, it seems like we’ve forgotten how to solve social problems of any significant scale.

"We" haven't forgotten how to solve social problems. Not to get all political, but at least in the United States, there is tremendous pressure not to solve any problems. Our elites are content with the status quo.

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#117

Post by bmitc »

gerad wrote: post #85
kelseyfrog wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The unfortunate state of things is that we've run out of the problems that we can solve and are left with the problem we can't solve. Our society/species is pretty terrible with problems that involve diffuse responsibility. Part of the problem is that we don't have social technologies equipped to handle diffuse responsibility, and another is that we have social agents who exploit this social bug to make money.

I’ve been reading Harari’s “Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind” recently. The book makes the point that the history of Homo Sapiens coincides with mass extinction - humankind has been disrupting and destroying habitats since it rapidly expanded out of Africa 300k years ago. Even before the agricultural revolution. It happens time and again throughout various geographies and histories, Homo Sapiens arrive somewhere…

Thanks for the book recommendation.

Does anyone know a good reference that discusses technology in the context of evolution? I think it's less abstract ideas and more technology that evolution can't keep up with. It's likely many other animal species can think abstractly, such as whales. But it is our technology development that surpasess everything, even our own emotional ability and intelligence.

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#118

Post by RGamma »

bmitc wrote: post #114
23B1 wrote: post #35

One thing I dislike the most about these problems – and the information/media/activism around them – is the "solutioning". Yes, we should recycle and reduce carbon emissions and learn to live in a more integrated fashion with earth. But the problem is so diffuse and requires substantive work against powerful forces (government, business, apathy). What I'd like to see more of, when presented with these sorts of proble…

Individuals cannot solve this. I leave trees up, dead or alive. I plant native plants. I remove invasive species. I only keep invasive bushes if they house birds. I don't spray for insects except around the base of my house, I don't kill off chipmunks, voles, squirrels, rabbits, etc. How can this compete with the dozens of neighbors in a half-mile radius that have removed in excess of hundreds of trees, big ones like…

Yeah, I know that feeling. I know no solution for now. Only waiting until the zeitgeist reaches your neighbors, old or new.

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#119

Post by [deleted] »

23B1 wrote: post #35

One thing I dislike the most about these problems – and the information/media/activism around them – is the "solutioning". Yes, we should recycle and reduce carbon emissions and learn to live in a more integrated fashion with earth. But the problem is so diffuse and requires substantive work against powerful forces (government, business, apathy). What I'd like to see more of, when presented with these sorts of proble…

[deleted]

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#120

Post by hasbot »

MSFT_Edging wrote: post #88
klipklop wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point isn’t to have you save the birds, it’s to get you to give up certain freedoms to a group that claims they can save the birds.

It is my freedom to have a big lifeless lawn that takes the place of local plants and displaces insects, which in turn starves bird populations. Why doesn't my yard have any birds?

Lawns aren't the problem. I used to live within the Willamette National Forest in Oregon and there is no wildlife there. Sure, there's a few deer, bear, and birds, but no where near as much wildlife as I can find in my suburban neighborhood. The original forest was nearly completely clearcut and replanted very densely with just a few species of timber trees. The canopy is so dense, there is no under story. There is nothing for wildlife to eat in these forests.
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