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A third of North America’s birds have vanished

nautil.us

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Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#81

Post by Arubis »

hasmanean wrote: post #50
MrVandemar wrote: post #13

The estimate is about 200 species go extinct every day from the actions of human beings -- ecosystem destruction, degredation, climate change etc. We are a meatgrinder to the biosphere.

Imagine the headlines when humans try to immigrate to other inhabited planets: “They’re bringing pollution, they’re bringing Extinction, and some of the I assume might actually enhance the ecosystems they inhabit.” It’s not such a hard skill. When we see a complex ecosystem is our first instinct to make it better or to exploit and degrade it? Do we even have a metric for what making it better actually means? Do we ev…

> We need more than a utilitarian reason, we should feel pleasure in making nature better the same way we feel pleasure at seeing a well designed race cad like a Ferrari.

There are definitely people that fit this descriptor! Poets, artists, laypeople that are well-attuned. But those are also likely to be the folks already doing relatively less damage compared to the rest of their societal cohort.

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#82

Post by Octokiddie »

It's surprising to see so many comments here jumping to the conclusion that the article is pointing the finger at carbon emissions. It's not. The article doesn't credit any single cause with the drop. Nor does it spin any solutions.

It does note a correlation, and from that a possible cause. And there, the link between observation and putative cause is not supported:

> The hardest hit were grassland birds, down by more than 50 percent, mostly due to the expansion of farms that turn a varied landscape into acres of neat, plowed rows

The article mainly reports a numerical finding.

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#83

Post by jeffbee »

23B1 wrote: post #35

One thing I dislike the most about these problems – and the information/media/activism around them – is the "solutioning". Yes, we should recycle and reduce carbon emissions and learn to live in a more integrated fashion with earth. But the problem is so diffuse and requires substantive work against powerful forces (government, business, apathy). What I'd like to see more of, when presented with these sorts of proble…

"Bird-friendly yard" is probably the most counterproductive of these. Habitat loss is far and away the biggest problem that birds face. Anyone having a yard is the problem. People must learn to congregate in compact development forms and leave the land for the animals, if they care about having animals.

Probably the only easy life change individuals can do is not eat meat and not buy ethanol. That would return tons of land to natural uses.

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#85

Post by gerad »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #51
23B1 wrote: post #35

One thing I dislike the most about these problems – and the information/media/activism around them – is the "solutioning". Yes, we should recycle and reduce carbon emissions and learn to live in a more integrated fashion with earth. But the problem is so diffuse and requires substantive work against powerful forces (government, business, apathy). What I'd like to see more of, when presented with these sorts of proble…

The unfortunate state of things is that we've run out of the problems that we can solve and are left with the problem we can't solve. Our society/species is pretty terrible with problems that involve diffuse responsibility. Part of the problem is that we don't have social technologies equipped to handle diffuse responsibility, and another is that we have social agents who exploit this social bug to make money.

I’ve been reading Harari’s “Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind” recently. The book makes the point that the history of Homo Sapiens coincides with mass extinction - humankind has been disrupting and destroying habitats since it rapidly expanded out of Africa 300k years ago. Even before the agricultural revolution.

It happens time and again throughout various geographies and histories, Homo Sapiens arrive somewhere and then a ton of species go extinct. Abstract ideas evolve faster than genes, and the evolution of the ability to process such ideas allowed our species to jump to the top of the food chain too fast for the typical checks and balances in nature to take place.

I think the best we can probably do is to continue to invest in education, science and technology. If people (particularly women) are educated and empowered enough, then it seems to drive down birth rates. Science and technology because if we can drive the costs of fixing these issues low enough, then we might be one day be able to “undo” some of the tragedies that we’ll have caused along the way.

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#86

Post by JKCalhoun »

zizee wrote: post #65
leeoniya wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If people don't change even with the threat of human life being lost then there's no way they care if multiple species of birds goes extinct. people won't change. they are addicted to convenience, low prices, diversity in options, and unlimited availability. which is also great for corporate profits. as a species, humans plan and invest very little beyond our own lifetimes. but we're just animals after all. all the…

> all the talk about becoming an interplanetary (mars) species for our own survival has to be the most absurd statement that can be made to dismiss the very real problems...but billionaires need an excuse to play Tony Stark. This is a thinly veiled dig at Elon musk. It's so weird that you think what he's doing is the problem, with his efforts bringing about electric cars earlier than what would have happened. He migh…

> with his efforts bringing about electric cars earlier than what would have happened

Now if only they were affordable by the masses....

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#88

Post by MSFT_Edging »

klipklop wrote: post #76
23B1 wrote: post #35

One thing I dislike the most about these problems – and the information/media/activism around them – is the "solutioning". Yes, we should recycle and reduce carbon emissions and learn to live in a more integrated fashion with earth. But the problem is so diffuse and requires substantive work against powerful forces (government, business, apathy). What I'd like to see more of, when presented with these sorts of proble…

The point isn’t to have you save the birds, it’s to get you to give up certain freedoms to a group that claims they can save the birds.

It is my freedom to have a big lifeless lawn that takes the place of local plants and displaces insects, which in turn starves bird populations. Why doesn't my yard have any birds?

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#89

Post by lr4444lr »

themitigating wrote: post #49
jmye wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you think Norway’s primary export is, speaking of blaming the right people?

They are at fault for being suppliers? If they don't supply oil someone else will. Like blaming prostitutes instead of johns

I think we have some moral standing to blame prostitutes for STDs. Peddling oil despite its externalities because people are addicted adds to the overall world market, driving down price, in turn hampering renewables.

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#90

Post by aaronbrethorst »

23B1 wrote: post #35

One thing I dislike the most about these problems – and the information/media/activism around them – is the "solutioning". Yes, we should recycle and reduce carbon emissions and learn to live in a more integrated fashion with earth. But the problem is so diffuse and requires substantive work against powerful forces (government, business, apathy). What I'd like to see more of, when presented with these sorts of proble…

1. Regular individuals: vote for city, county, state, and federal candidates who acknowledge the scope of the problem and want to solve it. Vote against people who deny the crisis’s existence.
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